| TheProblemOfAtheism |
| Posted 08/07/12 at 06:03 PM | Reply with quote #1 |
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I was reading the guardian and came across this old news tidbit. It was interesting because I had never heard of it before.
The story is over two years old, and details the vicious anger and vitriol of atheists, even against their very own.
On it's own it's little more than amusing. Atheists are, as opposed to us "primitive Christians", more rational, more enlightened humanists who are better-behaved than God himself. Or so they seem to think.
But it doesn't end there. Apparently there was such an acrimonious parting of ways between the techie who ran the site for Dawkins and the Dawkins Foundation itself, that Dawkins sued the techie. This is after they were so close that Dawkins dedicated one of his books to him.
Now I bring this up to point something important- namely the implication that atheists are, somehow better people than Christians isn't borne out by reality. If you've been exposed to three seconds of propaganda, this suggestion is not lost on you. The hijacking of terms like "rationality" for atheism is one example, but the whole community seems convinced, even brainwashed into believing that they are better than Christians.
But being an atheist, being rational, being a secular humanist, being a skeptic evidently doesn't lead to any more social harmony or improvement than one would have otherwise. This incident, and incidents like it expose the fallacy of this line of argumentation- that becoming an atheist doesn't makes you a better person.
But more importantly, it proves something else: That many of the problems ascribed to Christians and Christianity, in terms of bad behavior, are not weaknesses of Christianity, but weaknesses of human nature. Just like the hatred, vitriol and anger of many atheists, even towards their own, are, fundamentally, human problems.
And this social self-destructiveness and self-sabotaging nature universal to human beings of all stripes reveal that human beings are not perfect. We are fallen. We don't have some future-ideal that progressiveness will just magically fly us into, all problems magically self-resolving. We are all evidently broken without God.
And the only thing that can fix us is returning to Him.
But we won't stop there. When taking a closer look at the wrongs of Christians in our society, of which there are many. Too many to count. It might be worthwhile to conclude that these are broken people who turn to God, struggling to live a life that is torn between their brokenness, their dysfunctions, their problems and weaknesses, and the God who walks with them.
In other words, it's not that Christians turn to sin so readily, but that sinners turn to Christ so readily.
I understand this will not be an easy pill to swallow for those skeptical of the Christian message. But to those who accept the message of Christ, this ought to represent a coherent way to look at one of the most painfully effective criticisms of Christianity: That our Christians are not like our Christ at all. |
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| juniorsti |
| Posted 08/07/12 at 06:22 PM | Reply with quote #2 |
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The question is, why do you even allow them to label you as such? In my mind (and I don't mean to be rude) there is no need for this thread. It's as if you're taking their nonsense seriously. All these atheist fundies are bottom-feeders. Let them say what they want. There is no need to defend yourself from them because they are simply not a threat.
Just grab some popcorn and watch them annihilate each other as they did on dawkin.net. When it was happening I spend a few hours just reading their rants and laughing at them. But what else would you expect from the angry atheist, internet mob. |
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| DEADEYE |
| Posted 08/07/12 at 08:05 PM | Reply with quote #3 |
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Prepare yourself!
lol. |
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| einstein89 |
| Posted 08/07/12 at 08:51 PM | Reply with quote #4 |
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| I sense some generalizations in this thread. |
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| Rostos |
| Posted 08/07/12 at 09:19 PM | Reply with quote #5 |
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Can i ask, i would appreciate honest answers.......How many of the Atheists on this site are also on Muslim defenders or Jewish defenders sites arguing against God / or the religious position they are holding?
Thanks |
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| DEADEYE |
| Posted 08/07/12 at 09:40 PM | Reply with quote #6 |
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| Obviously not all atheists are angry. There are respected atheists on this forum. |
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| KeithS |
| Posted 08/07/12 at 10:11 PM | Reply with quote #7 |
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Quote: Originally Posted by Rostos
Can i ask, i would appreciate honest answers.......How many of the Atheists on this site are also on Muslim defenders or Jewish defenders sites arguing against God / or the religious position they are holding?
Thanks
Very good question! Is it God so many atheists hate, or just Christians?
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| juniorsti |
| Posted 08/07/12 at 11:04 PM | Reply with quote #8 |
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The 'naive atheist' (more correctly the agnostic) probably hates what people who call themselves Christian have do and still do in this word that is detrimental to others. We all know the horrors of the religious wars, the behavior of right-wing fundamentalists and the like.
The 'nerd atheist' hates anything that is not science, even though he doesn't even know what science really is. He think reality = empiricism and anything that falls outside that neurotic boundary he must reject if for no other reason than his own faithlessness towards reality/society/other people. This obsession with scientism as I understand it stems from lack of trust, a constant fear of being wrong (which is why the grasp on words like "science explains it" to push thier ideologies on others) and a false projection of the abstraction of rationalism as the correct 'way' over and above 'feeling'. They think cold thinking is somehow going to help them insulate themselves from the ambiguities (the best parts perhaps) of life. Instead of living in the world they'd rather live in a box.
The "nihilist atheist" (although in all honesty all atheists are nihilists) is one who hates everything starting from his own self. These are the types that read nietzsche and camus and live a life of dispair. They hate anything happy, good and beautiful. Ultimately they hate God because sunconsciously they blame him for their own misery. Their cynicism is their defence mechanism and their own self-annihilation bundled into one.
There are other categories as well but I think these are usually the predominant ones. |
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| Michael |
| Posted 08/07/12 at 11:10 PM | Reply with quote #9 |
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| Then there is the 'normal' atheist who, for whatever reason that might be, has listened to all the arguments and, while recognising them as evidence and arguments, has not found them conclusively convincing. |
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| juniorsti |
| Posted 08/07/12 at 11:17 PM | Reply with quote #10 |
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That's correct Michael. Those however, I consider agnostics.
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| Geneticist |
| Posted 08/08/12 at 12:07 AM | Reply with quote #11 |
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If I were an atheist I would be angry simply by all the constant accusations/generalizations of being angry coupled with all the other stereotypes.
I know as a Christian I despise such things when leveled at me, so why do we committ the same sin?
Engaging in pop psychological explanations of others feelings and beliefs is derogatory. I've used them before because I knew they were derogatory. Not Christlike of me, I'm just honest. But let's not kid ourselves here. Threads like these are not about understanding, they are about venting and blaming others. Fine and all to vent, until you start accepting your frustrations as truth and wonder why the very people you are trying to reach don't want to listen to someone who just spent a thread talking about how bad they all are. |
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| rsmartin |
| Posted 08/08/12 at 12:31 AM | Reply with quote #12 |
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Quote: Originally Posted by Rostos
Can i ask, i would appreciate honest answers.......How many of the Atheists on this site are also on Muslim defenders or Jewish defenders sites arguing against God / or the religious position they are holding?
Thanks
It's Christian theological debate I'm interested in so obviously I don't seek out Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, or other theist sites to argue against god when arguing against god is not my goal or interest. It is true that the Christian response often obliges me to posit reasons for not believing in God. You might label that as "arguing against God," but that is not why I'm here. It's just part of the order of the day, based on what happens. |
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| rsmartin |
| Posted 08/08/12 at 12:34 AM | Reply with quote #13 |
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Quote: Originally Posted by Michael
Then there is the 'normal' atheist who, for whatever reason that might be, has listened to all the arguments and, while recognising them as evidence and arguments, has not found them conclusively convincing.
Thank you for seeing us as humans and accepting us as we are.
Quote: Originally Posted by Geneticist
If I were an atheist I would be angry simply by all the constant accusations/generalizations of being angry coupled with all the other stereotypes.
I know as a Christian I despise such things when leveled at me, so why do we committ the same sin?
Engaging in pop psychological explanations of others feelings and beliefs is derogatory. I've used them before because I knew they were derogatory. Not Christlike of me, I'm just honest. But let's not kid ourselves here. Threads like these are not about understanding, they are about venting and blaming others. Fine and all to vent, until you start accepting your frustrations as truth and wonder why the very people you are trying to reach don't want to listen to someone who just spent a thread talking about how bad they all are.
Thank you for pointing out the obvious, for understanding the frustration of otherwise calm and well-adjusted people. |
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| Lawlessone777 |
| Posted 08/08/12 at 08:49 AM | Reply with quote #14 |
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I read the article and this jumped out at me:
Quote: Surely there has to be something wrong with people who can resort to such over-the-top language, over-reacting so spectacularly to something so trivial.
The irony...oh God....the irony. |
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| innerbling |
| Posted 08/08/12 at 10:31 AM | Reply with quote #15 |
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This is because nihilist does not have any other tool in her repertoire but force i.e. manipulation (sophism), mockery (form of manipulation), threats etc.
That is most immature people (not only atheists) do not understand that manipulation (force) does not generate any real change for the better, but a person has to make her own choices. |
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