| Fhbradley |
| Posted 07/05/12 at 05:15 PM | Reply with quote #1 |
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Just an observation.
'God' is a proper name. That is to say, it is a name, not a description, of an individual thing. Proper names, in order to be genuine, must be ostensive. In order to ostensively define some entity, you must be able to refer to it using 'this' or 'that'. For example, suppose there is a green patch in front of me, and I want to refer to it. In order to do so, I give it the name 'Thomas'. Thus
That's 'Thomas'
is instance of ostensively defining a thing and by doing so giving it a proper name. But you can't give God a proper name, since you can never say
That's 'God'
or
This is 'God'
Consequently, 'God' must really be a disguised definite description. 'God' just means the x such that Fx, where say, 'F' is the predicate 'is the greatest maximal being' |
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| johnBee |
| Posted 07/05/12 at 06:46 PM | Reply with quote #2 |
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| I don't know if this is relevant or not but I found that the bible makes use of the term, God as a title. However I also discovered that the title itself wasn't Holy, which stood in contrast with God's personal name(YHWH) which was declared Holy. |
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| GRWelsh |
| Posted 07/05/12 at 11:59 PM | Reply with quote #3 |
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God with a capital G is used as a proper name, but only because he is the only god in a monotheistic religion.
If Judaism was, as some scholars seem to think, a monotheism that evolved out of monolatry, henotheism and/or polytheism, then there was a time when the ancient Hebrews acknowledged the existence of other local gods like Asherah, Baal, El, Dagon, Hadad, Yam, Mot, etc. Eventually, they merged El with YHWH, and dropped the fertility goddess Asherah. Baal and Dagon were turned into enemy gods, or false gods. This might also be the best explanation for the appearance of Elohim in the Bible -- the plural for gods. It also helps explain why Hebrews were backsliding all of the time, turning back to other idols or gods... Old habits are hard to break. |
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| johnBee |
| Posted 07/06/12 at 01:01 AM | Reply with quote #4 |
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Quote: Originally Posted by GRWelsh
God with a capital G is used as a proper name, but only because he is the only god in a monotheistic religion.
You do realize there are no such things as capital letters in both the Hebrew and Greek texts right. |
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| emailestthoume |
| Posted 07/06/12 at 01:47 AM | Reply with quote #5 |
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I don't know if you will find this helpful or not, but in Hebrew, there are, I believe, 3 names for God.
One is Elohim, which is not a proper name. "A Elohim" would be "a God," but "Elohim," just means more like "the God."
Another is YHWH, and this seems like a proper name. It is possibly an acronym for what God told Moses was his name, "I am what I am I was what I was, I will be what I will be."-- some translate this as "I am," but what I gave is probably closer to the Hebrew.
The other is Adonai, meaning Lord, which is pretty self explanatory, though it is sometimes combined with Elohim--the "Lord God." |
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| Fhbradley |
| Posted 07/06/12 at 02:28 AM | Reply with quote #6 |
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| You guys are all misunderstanding the point. Sure, the Bible has names for God, I'm not denying that. What I am denying is that persons such as ourselves can refer to God unless we use the name 'God' as a disguised and abbreviated definite description. |
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| GRWelsh |
| Posted 07/06/12 at 09:16 AM | Reply with quote #7 |
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Quote: Originally Posted by johnBeeQuote: Originally Posted by GRWelsh
God with a capital G is used as a proper name, but only because he is the only god in a monotheistic religion. You do realize there are no such things as capital letters in both the Hebrew and Greek texts right.
Yes, and I also realize the word God, with those letters, G, O and D, arranged that way, does not appear in the Hebrew or Greek texts. It seems that when the Bible was translated into the Gothic language (4th Century AD or later), the words guda and guþ were used. They were the etymological precursors of the English word God. It was some time after this, perhaps in English language Bibles, that the tradition started of capitalizing the word God for use as a proper name to distinguish the Judeo-Christian God from pagan gods, but also to replace certain proper names or titles as originally were given in the Bible (YHWH, Adonai, Elohim, El Shaddai, etc.). |
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| Lawlessone777 |
| Posted 07/06/12 at 10:04 AM | Reply with quote #8 |
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Quote: If Judaism was, as some scholars seem to think, a monotheism that evolved out of monolatry, henotheism and/or polytheism, then there was a time when the ancient Hebrews acknowledged the existence of other local gods like Asherah, Baal, El, Dagon, Hadad, Yam, Mot, etc. Eventually, they merged El with YHWH, and dropped the fertility goddess Asherah. Baal and Dagon were turned into enemy gods, or false gods. This might also be the best explanation for the appearance of Elohim in the Bible -- the plural for gods. It also helps explain why Hebrews were backsliding all of the time, turning back to other idols or gods... Old habits are hard to break.
Yes, and I also realize the word God, with those letters, G, O and D, arranged that way, does not appear in the Hebrew or Greek texts. It seems that when the Bible was translated into the Gothic language (4th Century AD or later), the words guda and guþ were used. They were the etymological precursors of the English word God. It was some time after this, perhaps in English language Bibles, that the tradition started of capitalizing the word God for use as a proper name to distinguish the Judeo-Christian God from pagan gods, but also to replace certain proper names or titles as originally were given in the Bible (YHWH, Adonai, Elohim, El Shaddai, etc.).
Dude, I have to honestly question where you get your historical information from and how you're interpreting that information. It seems like you're basing this, and your previous post, off of some seriously bizarre atheistic conspiracy theories.
Elohim is nothing more than the translated Hebrew word for God, god, or gods. It's best describe as "gods" or "power", meaning a supreme spiritual force. Yahweh (or Jehova) is the name God gives of himself in the old testament. Adonai is the hebrew word for master. El Shaddai is the hebrew word for almighty.
God is also referred to as El (mighty one), Elyon (highest), and Avinu (our father). The Lords Prayer itself starts, in Hebrew with Avinu, "Our father, who art in heaven." It's the difference between me calling Jesus Lord, saviour, lamb of God, hosanna, or master.
Though Judaism arose during times of polytheistic religion, claiming that it evolved as such is not only unfounded, but the support you're resting your case on is based off of misinformation, much like your previous claim that Jesus never existed. |
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| johnBee |
| Posted 07/06/12 at 11:36 AM | Reply with quote #9 |
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Quote: Originally Posted by GRWelsh
... It was some time after this, perhaps in English language Bibles, that the tradition started of capitalizing the word God for use as a proper name to distinguish the Judeo-Christian God from pagan gods, but also to replace certain proper names or titles as originally were given in the Bible (YHWH, Adonai, Elohim, El Shaddai, etc.).
I agree. Though it appears as though name substitutions began long before the English language. And we find good evidence of this in the Greek NT where YHVH ELOHIM has all but disappeared from the scene(substituted). However, the reasons for this were apparently due to superstition rather than giving the text the respect it deserved. Which only magnifies the attitude of the people of that day. |
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