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snoochies
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Posted 03/04/12
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#1
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Obviously alot of people don't believe in God because they say there is no evidence for God existence.
What kind of evidence would make you believe that God did exist?
Cheers
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skeptic88
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Posted 03/04/12
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#2
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A single sound logical argument or piece of physical evidence that necessitates god would be a nice start, I think.
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lionofjudah
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Posted 03/04/12
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#3
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Quote: A single sound logical argument or piece of physical evidence that necessitates god would be a nice start, I think.
Are you the smartest man in the world?
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antybu86
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Posted 03/04/12
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#4
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It's hard for me to think of a silver bullet argument or piece of evidence for God - and by "God," I assume you are referring to the god of Evangelical Christianity. I suppose if tomorrow night all the stars in the sky aligned to spell out a perfect refutation of The God Delusion, then it would be an easy argument to say that the Christian God is the best explanation. You probably can also imagine similar mind-blowing feats which have the same effect... though there would always be the possibility that some super-intelligence is just trying to screw with humanity, you still have me (and a lot of other non-believers/people of other religions) well on their way to being converted.
There are however a few things that, especially in combination with each other, would make everybody stand up and take notice. For example, if The Bible actually contained scientific truths which would have been utterly impossible to account for 2000+ years ago, that would be extremely interesting. I'm not talking about the nonsense that is often presented which requires a lot of heavy and questionable interpretation, but if Jesus said something like, "And I say unto you: the universe is permeated by invisible light, approximately 1.7 mm (or whatever was the common measuring unit) in length, which remains from when the entirety of the universe was condensed and extremely hot."
Or if the Bible (or post-biblical prophets) made some non-vague, non-self-fulfilling prophesies, and not post-prophesies. Seriously, something like "In the 2012 year after the birth of Christ, stars will explode in the following galaxies [insert star chart here]."
...or Jesus could finally return to earth. For a couple thousand years, Christian leaders have been claiming that it's going to happen in their lifetime. Maybe it's finally time to admit that you guys have been stood-up.
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fredonly
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Posted 03/05/12
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#5
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Quote: Originally Posted by snoochies
Obviously alot of people don't believe in God because they say there is no evidence for God existence.
What kind of evidence would make you believe that God did exist?
For starters, consider what kind of evidence it would take for you to believe aliens have visited the earth who originated in another set of spatial dimensions parallel to our own. Surely it would take more than some people telling you they had seen aliens or been abducted, and the aliens told them where they are from.
Realistically, the only viable evidence would be my own personal experience.
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skeptic88
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Posted 03/05/12
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#6
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Quote: Originally Posted by lionofjudahQuote: A single sound logical argument or piece of physical evidence that necessitates god would be a nice start, I think.
Are you the smartest man in the world?
No, why?
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troyjs
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Posted 03/05/12
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#7
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skeptic88,
Quote: A single sound logical argument or piece of physical evidence that necessitates god would be a nice start, I think.
Why do you require a sound logical argument, rather than an invalid argument? Is it subjective preference, or intuition, or as a result of a grounded cogent epistemology? Why is my say-so not good enough for you?
kind regards
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skeptic88
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Posted 03/05/12
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#8
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Why do you require a sound logical argument, rather than an invalid argument? Is it subjective preference, or intuition, or as a result of a grounded cogent epistemology?
Well... Aristotle said it best I think: there are several laws of thought, which we are using at this very moment, which are fundamental and axiomatic rules upon which rational discourse is based. Of these, is one the law of non-contradiction. These laws cannot be disregarded or discarded, simply because they are so universal. That these laws do not lead to any paradox adds to their force of conviction; but that too is just an application of their universality.
Why is my say-so not good enough for you?
Why would it be?
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troyjs
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Posted 03/05/12
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#9
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Quote: Well... Aristotle said it best I think: there are several laws of thought, which we are using at this very moment, which are fundamental and axiomatic rules upon which rational discourse is based. Of these, is one the law of non-contradiction. These laws cannot be disregarded or discarded, simply because they are so universal. That these laws do not lead to any paradox adds to their force of conviction; but that too is just an application of their universality.
Why are we justified in our adherence to the laws of logic? Suppose that we can not help but think according to these laws, eg, law of non-contradiction -- why is that any reason to affirm their value in determining the truth-value of a proposition? To say that these laws can not be disregarded or discarded, seems to be descriptive of our thinking and beliefs, rather than prescriptive of out thinking and beliefs.
Quote: Why is my say-so not good enough for you?
Why would it be?
Is your preference not to be satisfied with my say-so purely subjective and arbitrary then?
kind regards
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skeptic88
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Posted 03/05/12
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#10
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Quite honestly, I'm not willing, nor do I find it necessary for the level of discourse on this forum, to justify my conviction that people should discuss in a way that follows logic and rationality.
I would engage you if I cared, or had the philosophical vocabulary, but I'm a scientist, and not a philosopher.
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neilfrompta
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Posted 03/05/12
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#11
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 For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible. 
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SueDoeNimm
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Posted 03/05/12
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#12
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Quote: Originally Posted by snoochies
Obviously alot of people don't believe in God because they say there is no evidence for God existence.
What kind of evidence would make you believe that God did exist?
Cheers
It would be the same kind of evidence that would convince you that Thor exists. What kind of evidence would convince you that Thor exists?
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tcampen
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Posted 03/05/12
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#13
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Quote: Originally Posted by snoochies
What kind of evidence would make you believe that God did exist? I'm not so sure what it would take to believe in a particular god. But I strongly suspect any omnipotent God would. It seems to me that if there is a God that wanted everyone to know who he or she was, and what he or she willed for humanity, and choose believe in and worship that God or suffer eternal consequences, then any such God would reasonably provide as much evidence as for the existence of the sun, of water, or of gravity holding us to the Earth. Mystery is not a requisit aspect accepting something as true or being able to exercise free will. I personally reject the assertion that a degree of possible doubt is needed for true faith in God. A particular God's existence and will for us could be made as plain as anything else all of us know to exist (regardless of religious beliefs).
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jbiemans
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Posted 03/05/12
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#14
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What evidence would I need ?
Well the obvious has been said 'An omniscient God would know what evidence I required, and an omnipotent God would be able to supply it'.
That being said, I would need some evidence of God itself. Nothing second hand (look what God has made, or look what God has told me). The next question would be how I would be able to tell it if was actually God, or simply highly advanced aliens. That is an interesting question too. If they were sufficiently advanced, I am not sure that there would be any to distinguish, apart from asking them to suspend the laws of physics, etc. Any alien race that existed, would not be able to violate the natural laws.
The interesting counter question to that is:
How do you know that Jesus was actually the son of God, and not simply a highly advanced alien ?
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Noraaron
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Posted 03/05/12
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#15
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Quote: Originally Posted by snoochies
Obviously alot of people don't believe in God because they say there is no evidence for God existence.
What kind of evidence would make you believe that God did exist?
Cheers
errr i think some people missed the point on snoochies thread.... it simply is not directed to christians they way i read it.
I would have really liked to hear from more atheist etc.. on what evidence is neccesary for them to believe.
It sort of went into attacking people for having perceived unreasonable expectations on evidence to prove to them god exists...that is simply silly.
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