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Kenny
Reply with quote  #1 
Okay, I just finished listening to the latest podcast on Dr. Craig's view on eschatology. This time he speaks of the rapture (10/12/2009 - The Doctrine of the Last Things, Part 2). And thank God he doesn't hold to a pretrib rapture view! But so many Christians hold to this view and Dr. Craig speaks to many churches who are dispensationalists. I have no doubt that Dr. Craig will have many Christians criticizing him for not holding to the rapture. I have to hand it to Dr. Craig for having the guts to say something that may make him potentially unpopular. I bet you some Christians who listen to Dr. Craig's podcast may not know that there is an alternative to the pretrib rapture view! But something tells me that the Jack Van Impe, Hal Lindsey, Benny Hinn, Tim LaHaye, and John Hagee crowd are going to get on Dr. Craig's case for this. I remember many creationists getting on Dr. Craig's case because he doesn't hold to a 6-10,000-year-old earth. I wonder what they'll call Dr. Craig this time.

Anyway, I can't wait for next week's podcast. From the sounds of it, I think Dr. Craig will deal with the destruction of Jerusalem and the AD 70 premise. As a preterist, I'm interested in what Dr. Craig has to say. However, what concerns me is the fact that Dr. Craig spoke of N. T. Wright (and others) holding to the view that all of the prophecies in the New Testament were fulfilled in AD 70. I don't think that Dr. Wright holds to this view (known as hyper-preterism). He's more of a orthodox preterist (or "partial-preterist" - I don't like the use of this term because of said reason - but I use it to distinguish it from hyper-preterism). So, I would disagree with Dr. Craig's assessment there on N. T. Wright, because Wright is not a hyper-preterist (this article may be helpful). Or maybe I misunderstood Dr. Craig. I guess, we'll have to see until next week.

Thoughts

Maxeo
Reply with quote  #2 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny
Okay, I just finished listening to the latest podcast on Dr. Craig's view on eschatology. This time he speaks of the rapture (10/12/2009 - The Doctrine of the Last Things, Part 2). And thank God he doesn't hold to a pretrib rapture view! But so many Christians hold to this view and Dr. Craig speaks to many churches who are dispensationalists. I have no doubt that Dr. Craig will have many Christians criticizing him for not holding to the rapture. I have to hand it to Dr. Craig for having the guts to say something that may make him potentially unpopular. I bet you some Christians who listen to Dr. Craig's podcast may not know that there is an alternative to the pretrib rapture view! But something tells me that the Jack Van Impe, Hal Lindsey, Benny Hinn, Tim LaHaye, and John Hagee crowd are going to get on Dr. Craig's case for this. I remember many creationists getting on Dr. Craig's case because he doesn't hold to a 6-10,000-year-old earth. I wonder what they'll call Dr. Craig this time.

Anyway, I can't wait for next week's podcast. From the sounds of it, I think Dr. Craig will deal with the destruction of Jerusalem and the AD 70 premise. As a preterist, I'm interested in what Dr. Craig has to say. However, what concerns me is the fact that Dr. Craig spoke of N. T. Wright (and others) holding to the view that all of the prophecies in the New Testament were fulfilled in AD 70. I don't think that Dr. Wright holds to this view (known as hyper-preterism). He's more of a orthodox preterist (or "partial-preterist" - I don't like the use of this term because of said reason - but I use it to distinguish it from hyper-preterism). So, I would disagree with Dr. Craig's assessment there on N. T. Wright, because Wright is not a hyper-preterist (this article may be helpful). Or maybe I misunderstood Dr. Craig. I guess, we'll have to see until next week.

Thoughts


I haven't listened to the podcast yet since it just came out today, I'll try to listen to it later today hopefully.  Does Craig deny the rapture all together, or just a pretribulational rapture?  It's a shame Christians criticize on issues like eschatology, I think that issue should be one of the last doctrines that should be criticized...
Kenny
Reply with quote  #3 
Dr. Craig doesn't believe in any rapture (pre-, post-, or mid-). But he does believe in the Second Coming of Christ.
Maxeo
Reply with quote  #4 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny
Dr. Craig doesn't believe in any rapture (pre-, post-, or mid-). But he does believe in the Second Coming of Christ.


Hmm.. That's interesting... I would love to here his arguments... I wonder what he does with 1 Thess. 4.  He's going to have to cut out or really manipulate some texts [either that or provide so background information to explain it away].  I've never heard of anyone really denying the rapture, that's an interesting one.
Kenny
Reply with quote  #5 
In Dr. Craig's latest podcast he deals with 1 Thess. 4. There are some Christians who deny the rapture. As a preterist, I certainly deny any type of secret rapture. But, like Dr. Craig, I believe in a Second Coming, too.
jonahbear
Reply with quote  #6 
Dr. Craig was smart to stay out of that debate.  It's too bad he had to jump into it.

It is a contentious issue amongst the various proponents.  Though I believe this to be a very side-theolgical issue, many see it as a fundamental component of the faith.  It's too bad.

I hope he doesn't wear too much grief for this.
Maxeo
Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Dr. Craig was smart to stay out of that debate.  It's too bad he had to jump into it.

It is a contentious issue amongst the various proponents.  Though I believe this to be a very side-theolgical issue, many see it as a fundamental component of the faith.  It's too bad.

I hope he doesn't wear too much grief for this.


I don't mind him joining the debate, but this is probably the only thing a disagree with him on a whole-scale basis.

I finished my seminary application last night [I'm running a bit behind lol] and I had to sign an agreement on the statement of faith... The statement of faith I had to sign was pretty detailed for the most part.  There was one thing I disagreed with that I had to list, but I don't think eschatology is as important as many people make it out to be [like putting it in a statement of faith].  I really don't think it's that important.
jonahbear
Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxeo
Quote:
Dr. Craig was smart to stay out of that debate.  It's too bad he had to jump into it.

It is a contentious issue amongst the various proponents.  Though I believe this to be a very side-theolgical issue, many see it as a fundamental component of the faith.  It's too bad.

I hope he doesn't wear too much grief for this.


I don't mind him joining the debate, but this is probably the only thing a disagree with him on a whole-scale basis.

I finished my seminary application last night [I'm running a bit behind lol] and I had to sign an agreement on the statement of faith... The statement of faith I had to sign was pretty detailed for the most part.  There was one thing I disagreed with that I had to list, but I don't think eschatology is as important as many people make it out to be [like putting it in a statement of faith].  I really don't think it's that important.


I don't mind that he joined in either but I think it is beyond his mandate as a philosopher.

It may muddy his current apologetics ministry and enter him into an area that is best left discussed by those who are "into" eschatology.  That is my personal opinion, of course and perhaps this will go largely unnoticed.
Kenny
Reply with quote  #9 
Jonahbear,

William Lane Craig has a doctorate in theology! Why not get into this debate? As a philosopher, he's been given enough slack for holding to the cosmological argument for God's existence. But, yes, I hope he won't be given grief for his view on the rapture.

Although Dr. Craig seems to be primarily known as a philosopher, I hope he writes a book on systematic theology one of these days. Now, that's something worth looking for. If I'm right, Dr. Craig is a Wesleyan. An Arminian Wesleyan by the name of Vic Reasoner wrote a commentary on the book of Revelation from a preterist's viewpoint here. The book is a great read.

Kenny

jonahbear
Reply with quote  #10 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny
Jonahbear,

William Lane Craig has a doctorate in theology! Why not get into this debate? As a philosopher, he's been given enough slack for holding to the cosmological argument for God's existence. But, yes, I hope he won't be given grief for his view on the rapture.

Although Dr. Craig seems to be primarily known as a philosopher, I hope he writes a book on systematic theology one of these days. Now, that's something worth looking for. If I'm right, Dr. Craig is a Wesleyan. An Arminian Wesleyan by the name of Vic Reasoner wrote a commentary on the book of Revelation from a preterist's viewpoint here. The book is a great read.

Kenny


Kenny,

Dr Craig is, of course, well within his rights to write as a theolgian (whatever the topic).

I just hope it doesn't detract from his main ministry which was to show an apologists' case for God.
Maxeo
Reply with quote  #11 
Hmm, I listened to his second podcast, I have to look more into that Greek.  I think that's the weak point in his argument.
Craig
Reply with quote  #12 
Its not as much about the Greek as it is about the setting of when the text was written. The historical setting is key to what is being foretold in the Scripture imo.
Maxeo
Reply with quote  #13 
How do you see the historical setting overriding?  I think they would have understood it either way.
vmancha
Reply with quote  #14 
If you notice WLC moved quickly thru this class not taking any real questions about the rapture.
To ignore Daniel 9 and the 70th week which obviously hasn't happened hurts any Greek treatment he may give in a 30 min presentation.
I wonder if he rejects the thousand year period where Satan is bound?

RobertH
Reply with quote  #15 
I haven't studied the rapture. I couldn't even find it the first two times I read the NT and had to have it pointed out to me (the person showed 1 Thes). I personally don't see a rapture; what is the typical argument for it?
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