|  New Posts
 
 
 


Reply
 
Author Comment
 
Composer
Reply with quote  #16 

Quote:
Originally Posted by troyjs
Composer,
. . . . Where is your evidence that we need evidence?

Here is my evidence that those claiming to be bible believers need to provide legitimate evidence -

i.e. IF you or ANY others are genuinely claiming to be amongst those who believe their respective acclaimed holy book contains text they agree with at least and wish to obey, then it is entirely encumbent upon (say in this case) ' bible believers ' for them to strictly obey and adhere to what it requires of them towards those who ask them questions like myself -

Bottom-Line - According to the bible Story book itself, it is encumbent upon bible believers to -

i) Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. (1 Thess. 5:21) KJV Story book

Strong's

BDB/Thayers # 1381
1381 dokimazo dok-im-ad'-zo} from 1384; TDNT - 2:255,181; v

AV - prove 10, try 4, approve 3, discern 2, allow 2, like 1, examine 1; 23

1) to test, examine, prove, scrutinise (to see whether a thing is genuine or not), as metals

2) to recognise as genuine after examination, to approve, deem worthy

 

Hence please provide the alleged evidence you think you may have, along with your reasoning why you believe it is supported by legitimate evidence and what that alleged evidence is and why others should believe it is legitimate evidence and not something your limitations have accepted it as good enough for your current purposes?

 

ii) . . . . and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: (1 Pet. 3:15) KJV Story book
 
Hence, IF you are say a bible believer, please do as you are commanded and answer my questions posted earlier and on a level playing field that I be granted opportunity that I can examine your answers for legitimacy?

Remember also that those claiming to believe and obey their bible, should and in fact ' must ' also answer as was asked and not behave mischievously and disobediently as you have done so far, by your typically offering absolutely NO legitimate evidence for your cause, but instead trying to deflect your incompetence and lack of legitimacy on to those like me that ask the questions that expose your current ideology and you fail to legitimately answer them and instead offer a scorpion (metaph') when I didn't ask nor should have received it from you (cf. Luke 11:11-12) KJV Story book
 
Much better luck next time!

 

NB: Here again for your added convenience, is what I originally asked and you ran for cover and tried to evade it in blatant contradiction to the bible commands that state you must not do so, but in fact do otherwise! (That alone proves you are either unfamiliar or ignorant of the content of the bible and the obligations placed upon its believers or else you are plain disobedient to it and either way thus exposed as just another pretend believer with a limited knowledge of what you claim to hold so dear?) -
 
Apart from your emmotional pleas for the literal existence of any god(s) what you failed to legitimately provide was actual evidence
 
1. Any such god(s) literally exists
 
2. What denomination your god(s) represent?
 
3. That even a single word contained in ANY acclaimed ' holy-scripture ' was given by any such god(s) to man? 

4. What are you claiming this Hell is and where is it allegedly literally located along with your legitimate evidence?

5. The legitimate evidence inside the biblical Story book of a ' heaven-going for all believers ' is?


 

troyjs
Reply with quote  #17 
Composer,

The only evidence in support of your claim that we need to use evidence, was from the Bible. Although it does not mention the word 'evidence', it does command us to 'prove' all things. It has long been proven that empirical evidence is unreliable as regards to truth. Nevertheless, I am glad that you base your belief that we should have good reasons for what we believe, on the Bible, or do you have other reasons for why we need to use evidence? If you don't then your beliefs are arbitrary since you do not believe all that the Bible says, yet you have not given any to believe that we need to use evidence apart from the Bible. If I had stated that we should not prove all things which we believe, then your post would be a critical internal-critique of my personal belief. However, I do in fact believe that I should prove all things. This is why I am asking you to prove your statement that we need to use evidence. Pardon my emotion -- I hope we can look past that and you might respond to my actual arguments in your next post.

Quote:
Apart from your emmotional pleas for the literal existence of any god(s) what you failed to legitimately provide was actual evidence 
 


Please define and justify the use of evidence. Some believe that if the Bible makes a proposition, it is sufficient evidence for such. I doubt that  you hold this view. Some believe that There is no external world and that all is in the mind, and we can not trust our senses -- I do not know if you hold this view. Some believe that we are born with a blank mind, and that all knowledge comes by sense experience -- I do not know if you hold this view.

Please inform us what your position is. What do you take to be sufficient evidence? What is your epistemology? How do you believe we can know truth? And justify your assertions.

When we have established what it the correct criteria for determining what is true, then we can continue in our endeavour of answering the questions.

I do not want to erect a straw-man, and therefore assume that you are more than happy to justify and establish your means of finding truth, rather than to be arbitrary.

kind regards
Composer
Reply with quote  #18 

Quote:
Originally Posted by troyjs
Composer,

The only evidence in support of your claim that we need to use evidence, was from the Bible. Although it does not mention the word 'evidence', it does command us to 'prove' all things. It has long been proven that empirical evidence is unreliable as regards to truth. Nevertheless, I am glad that you base your belief that we should have good reasons for what we believe, on the Bible, or do you have other reasons for why we need to use evidence? If you don't then your beliefs are arbitrary since you do not believe all that the Bible says, yet you have not given any to believe that we need to use evidence apart from the Bible. If I had stated that we should not prove all things which we believe, then your post would be a critical internal-critique of my personal belief. However, I do in fact believe that I should prove all things. This is why I am asking you to prove your statement that we need to use evidence. Pardon my emotion -- I hope we can look past that and you might respond to my actual arguments in your next post.

Quote:
Apart from your emmotional pleas for the literal existence of any god(s) what you failed to legitimately provide was actual evidence 
 


Please define and justify the use of evidence. Some believe that if the Bible makes a proposition, it is sufficient evidence for such. I doubt that  you hold this view. Some believe that There is no external world and that all is in the mind, and we can not trust our senses -- I do not know if you hold this view. Some believe that we are born with a blank mind, and that all knowledge comes by sense experience -- I do not know if you hold this view.

Please inform us what your position is. What do you take to be sufficient evidence? What is your epistemology? How do you believe we can know truth? And justify your assertions.

When we have established what it the correct criteria for determining what is true, then we can continue in our endeavour of answering the questions.

I do not want to erect a straw-man, and therefore assume that you are more than happy to justify and establish your means of finding truth, rather than to be arbitrary.

kind regards

IF you claim to believe the biblical Story book (BTW: Which version & why?) then you must do as it states and that I previously pointed out to you.

Meanwhile you remain a fraudulent and disobedient jesus' believer still offering us scorpions (metaph') instead of legitimately manifesting the evidence your bible Story book commands you to provide by answering my questions with your alleged ' proofs? ' especially for my scrutiny. (See again: 1 Pet. 3:15, 1 Thess. 5:21) KJV Story book

Much better luck next time and we also look forward to your legitimately responding to the other Thread by your legitimately manifesting the promises already a given to any genuine Story book jesus' believer? So far the pearls still remain all mine! (cf: Matt. 7:6 KJV Story book)

Much much better luck in future in all your posts and so far empty evidences!




troyjs
Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
 IF you claim to believe the biblical Story book (BTW: Which version & why?) then you must do as it states and that I previously pointed out to you.

Meanwhile you remain a fraudulent and disobedient jesus' believer still offering us scorpions (metaph') instead of legitimately manifesting the evidence your bible Story book commands you to provide by answering my questions with your alleged ' proofs? ' especially for my scrutiny. (See again: 1 Pet. 3:15, 1 Thess. 5:21) KJV Story book

Much better luck next time and we also look forward to your legitimately responding to the other Thread by your legitimately manifesting the promises already a given to any genuine Story book jesus' believer? So far the pearls still remain all mine! (cf: Matt. 7:6 KJV Story book)

Much much better luck in future in all your posts and so far empty evidences!


Ia this your evidence that we need to use evidence?

It does not logically follow from this that we need to use evidence. Please define what you mean by 'evidence' and justify why we need to use it.

The Bible demands from us that we prove all things. That is exactly what I am trying to do. So far, you have not defined what you mean by 'evidence', nor have you proven that it is required. If you mean by 'evidence', the Bible, then I agree with you, but if you mean by 'evidence', observation and inference, then I do not agree with you, and you have yet to prove that we need such. All I am asking you at this stage, is for proof that we need to use evidence. If you have it, why do deny it to us?

Quote:
Much much better luck in future in all your posts and so far empty evidences!

I asked you for evidence that we need to use evidence.
You replied with quoting the Bible, where it commands us to prove all things.
I ask for evidence that 'prove all things' means use evidence. I am sure you do not want to be arbitrary, and will provide us with evidence for the use of evidence in your next thread. Then you will provide evidence in support of the evidence for using evidence.

kind regards
Composer
Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by troyjs
Quote:
 IF you claim to believe the biblical Story book (BTW: Which version & why?) then you must do as it states and that I previously pointed out to you.

Meanwhile you remain a fraudulent and disobedient jesus' believer still offering us scorpions (metaph') instead of legitimately manifesting the evidence your bible Story book commands you to provide by answering my questions with your alleged ' proofs? ' especially for my scrutiny. (See again: 1 Pet. 3:15, 1 Thess. 5:21) KJV Story book

Much better luck next time and we also look forward to your legitimately responding to the other Thread by your legitimately manifesting the promises already a given to any genuine Story book jesus' believer? So far the pearls still remain all mine! (cf: Matt. 7:6 KJV Story book)

Much much better luck in future in all your posts and so far empty evidences!


Ia this your evidence that we need to use evidence?

It does not logically follow from this that we need to use evidence. Please define what you mean by 'evidence' and justify why we need to use it.

The Bible demands from us that we prove all things.

Yes I already asked you to name the bible version(s) you use and why them in particular?

Quote:
Originally Posted by troyjs
That is exactly what I am trying to do. So far, you have not defined what you mean by 'evidence', nor have you proven that it is required. If you mean by 'evidence', the Bible, then I agree with you, but if you mean by 'evidence', observation and inference, then I do not agree with you, and you have yet to prove that we need such. All I am asking you at this stage, is for proof that we need to use evidence. If you have it, why do deny it to us?

Quote:
Much much better luck in future in all your posts and so far empty evidences!

I asked you for evidence that we need to use evidence.
You replied with quoting the Bible, where it commands us to prove all things.
I ask for evidence that 'prove all things' means use evidence. I am sure you do not want to be arbitrary, and will provide us with evidence for the use of evidence in your next thread. Then you will provide evidence in support of the evidence for using evidence.

kind regards

As you admit your Story book states and commands you must ' prove all things ' then it is YOUR ability to legitimately do as it commands you to do so.

Tell you what though, as you obviously can't obey by your own initiative or under your jesus' orders, I'll start by incrementally pointing out a number of things that your Story book promises to a genuine Story book jesus' believer and that must therefore be what the Story book itself regards as legitimate evidence to prove such a person -

1. Have you and those like you ' claiming ' to be obedient jesus believers obeyed your jesus and can prove you have by providing legitimate documentation to the following effect? -

i)   Sell  that ye have, and give alms; . . . . (Luke 12:33) KJV Story book

ii)  . . . . go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: . . . . (Matt. 19:21) KJV story book

I would be pleased to receive copies of written and independently witnessed signatures in a Statuatory Declaration confirming you have strictly obeyed Matt. 19:21 (List of assets, property, Bank statements etc all reading zero?) and a similar Statuatory Declaration from those others who also ' claim ' to be obedient christians?

iii) For we brought nothing into [this] world, [and  it is] certain we can carry nothing out.  8  And having  food   and   raiment  let us be therewith content. (1 Tim. 6:7-8) KJV bible story book

So it is your alleged jesus' will that you and those also claiming to be obedient jesus' followers that you sell absolutely everything you have and own, including e.g. computer(s), investments, savings, house(s) (Matt. 19:29) etc. give the proceeds to the poor save a days food and the clothes on your back and then get a non-christian friend OR any person willing to legitimately support you in this, to email a letter to me (franjac1@westnet.com.au) from you (ahem) christians, proving by sworn and signed statements that you have done so along with written confirmation / sworn and signed declaration that you are ' content? ' and shall remain that way and not go back to gathering riches etc? LOL!

IF you fail and instead offer more BS excuses for your disobedience as did your predecessors, then that unambiguously also proves you do not believe your jesus at all and know your jesus lied and you wouldn't be content with obeying those commands and refuse to do as you are commanded yet still ' claim ' to be an obedient christian!

&

IF you are aware of what it is to sin against your jesus then -

i) How did you know you were a sinner apart from your Story book?

ii) Have you now ceased sinning and when & why?

Much much better luck next time!




 

troyjs
Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
IF you fail and instead offer more BS excuses for your disobedience as did your predecessors, then that unambiguously also proves you do not believe your jesus at all and know your jesus lied and you wouldn't be content with obeying those commands and refuse to do as you are commanded yet still ' claim ' to be an obedient christian! 

This presupposes that your understanding is correct. Please provide an exegesis of why you believe that your interpretation, known and rejected for centuries, is correct rather than the one accepted by Christian and non-Christian scholars alike.

Quote:
i) How did you know you were a sinner apart from your Story book?

ii) Have you now ceased sinning and when & why?
 


Romans 7:7, teaches us that we would not have known sin if we were not taught the law.

Romans 7:23 teaches us that we never stop sinning.

As regards the rich young man, Jesus was answering the question as to how that man may be perfect. That man was attached, idolised, his' possessions and preferred them to eternal life. Jesus taught him that he must separate himself from his possessions, and follow him. If we continue reading, we are taught that the young man chose to keep his' possessions. The disciples then asked Jesus, "who then can be saved?"
Now this is the intent of the story, in the answer Jesus gave to this question: "With man,it is impossible, but with God, all things are possible."
The message is that man is incapable of saving himself. Even if the young man sold all of his possessions and gave to the poor, there is always sin separating man from God. This is why we need the Gospel. This is obvious when reading the final verses of the chapter:

Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife[e] or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. 30 But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first. Matthew 19:28-30.

Jesus is not teaching here that we must divorce our spouses, in order to be saved. Rather, we must be willing to and leave behind all that separates from God -- even if this includes property, parents, siblings, children, or spouses. This interpretation is believed to be accurate by both Non-Christians, and Christians alike. There are however, some internet skeptics and historical novelties which take the interpretation you take. Please provide a reason why you take the position that you do.

Please provide a reason why you take the position that you do.

kind regards

p.s, Please provide a reason for why you take the position that you do.
Composer
Reply with quote  #22 
Quote:
Originally Posted by troyjs
Romans 7:23 teaches us that we never stop sinning.
(Composer's emphasis)

Your other comments regarding what Story book jesus is allegedly supposed to have done etc. are now proven spurious, because your own resource condemns you by your own admission! -

Everyone who resides
23 in him does not sin;24 everyone who sins has neither seen him nor known him. (1 John 3:6) NET Story book
 
QED
 
Better luck at sport or some other Topic, legitimate religious discussion as a genuine Story book jesus believer, just isn't your legitimate forte'. LOL!
 

 
 


troyjs
Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Everyone who resides23 in him does not sin;24 everyone who sins has neither seen him nor known him. (1 John 3:6) NET Story book
 
QED
 
Better luck at sport or some other Topic, legitimate religious discussion as a genuine Story book jesus believer, just isn't your legitimate forte'. LOL!
 


In order for your assertion to be correct, it must be shown that your interpretation of 1 John is correct. Nevertheless, as regards the other question about giving all to the poor, since you have chosen not to respond, I will wait for your rebuttal to my answer. Until then, I will take it that you admit that your interpretation is incorrect.


Given that your interpretation as regards giving all you have to the poor was incorrect, I do not think it presumtuous that you may also be incorrect in your interpretation of 1 John about sinning.

To understand this, it is important to have an understanding of hamartiology as regards to Christians not sinning, yet the 'sin that is within us' sins.

Romans 7:17
As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.

Romans 7:20
Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

As regards 1 John, let us look at the context. The writer of 1 John writes in Chapter 3, verse 6: Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

But a few pages earlier, we read in chapter 1, verses 8 and 9:
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

Rather than thinking that John totally forgot what he wrote a few minutes earlier, in the same letter which he was going to send out to the churches, we see that this is not only clearly understood, but that it is in complete agreement with Paul in Romans 7 when we look at the Greek: In 1 John, we see that John is contrasting between abiding in God, and abiding in sin. He uses the word μένων (menōn), which is often used too describe 'remaining', 'abiding', 'continuing purposely', 'reside', as a verb -- something we actively do. In 1 John, we are commanded to abide in God -- an active thing to do, and not to abide in sin. To abide in God is not to abide in sin, yet there is still sin in us. This is why in 1 John, the same letter that tells us that those who reside in God, do not reside in sin, that we are not without sin, and if we confess our sins He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins.

In fact, we see this theme throughout the Bible. In Hebrews 10:14 we read:
because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

By being in Christ, we are Holy and blameless. Yet, we have sin and it is our duty to 'abide', or 'remain' in Him, as we are made holy.

Ofcourse, you would have already been aware of this interpretation of the text, whish is regarded as accurate by Christian and Non-Christian scholars alike. I don't believe you would make accusations without actually reading what the other side has to say. I am curious to know what your reply to them is.

kind regards
troyjs
Reply with quote  #24 
Composer,

Where is your evidence that we need to use evidence?


I have asked you this question from the beginning? Please answer it.
Composer
Reply with quote  #25 

Quote:
Originally Posted by troyjs
Composer,

Where is your evidence that we need to use evidence?

I have asked you this question from the beginning? Please answer it.

Please start paying proper attention - My earlier Post#16 legitimately answered in full your question and you remain legitimately refuted.

IF you truly believe NO evidence is required for your ideology, then why does the bible Story book you chose to believe as to be applied literally as your god(s) are supposed to have commanded and stated precisely what evidence others may also recognise as legitimate those who are said to be legitimate jesus' believers?

My earlier Post#16 provides some of that evidence and there is plenty more and yet you argue NO evidence is required for your cause?

The facts are, that you illegitimately attempt to disregard what Story book text doesn't suit you, yet hypocrytically accept other text that does (in your imagination at least!)

Everyone who resides23 in him does not sin . . . . (1 John 3:6a) NET Story book
 
everyone who sins has neither seen him nor known him. (1 John 3:6b) NET Story book

YOU and all others claiming to be genuine believers must admit that you all are malignant sinners according to your Story book (Romans 7:23), hence 1 John 3:6 legitimately and unambiguously and unassailably applies to you ALL, that you are ALL fraudulent jesus' believers, according to your very own bible Story book text!

&

The simplest way for ANY so called genuine story book Jesus believers to demonstrate both the legitimacy of at least some of the text and that its promises are literal to genuine believers now, is for so called ' genuine believers ' to manifest all the following promises ' freely ' and openly now with no excuses for their failure -
 
These signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new languages;10 16:18 they will pick up snakes with their hands, and whatever poison they drink will not harm them;11 they will place their hands on the sick and they will be well.� (Mark. 16:17-18) NET story book
 
&

And whatsoever ye shall ask  in   my   name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified  in the Son.  14  If ye shall ask any thing  in   my   name, I will do [it]. (John 14:13-14) KJV story book
 
  If ye abide  in  me, and  my  words abide  in  you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. (John 15:7) KJV story book
 
  Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. (Matt. 10:8) KJV story book

I have a paraplegic friend you can demonstrate your genuine Faith and resultant promises on. We'll even refund your travel expenses after your success!

50 years I've been trying and the tally of genuine believers, currently remains at 0.

50 year tally of pretend believers with pitiful excuses for their failure = 100%

Any are welcome to try to legitimately break that 100% record of failure?


Meanwhile you ALL remain condemned as Story book jesus' frauds!


Composer
Reply with quote  #26 
You may also follow my superior example to you troyjs and others by your answering what I asked you but you discourteously failed to answer and hypocrytically falsely accused me of not answering your question when my Earlier post#16 unabiguously refutes your claim!

The following questions I asked of you taken from that same Post#16 which you hypocrytically did fail to answer! -

1. Any such god(s) literally exists
 
2. What denomination your god(s) represent?
 
3. That even a single word contained in ANY acclaimed ' holy-scripture ' was given by any such god(s) to man? 

4. What are you claiming this Hell is and where is it allegedly literally located along with your legitimate evidence?

5. The legitimate evidence inside the biblical Story book of a ' heaven-going for all believers ' is?

Much much better luck when also when actually answering what was asked of you!



troyjs
Reply with quote  #27 
Quote:
Please start paying proper attention - My earlier Post#16 legitimately answered in full your question and you remain legitimately refuted.


This was your answer to my question: Where is your evidence that we need to use evidecnce?

Quote:

AV - prove 10, try 4, approve 3, discern 2, allow 2, like 1, examine 1; 23

1) to test, examine, prove, scrutinise (to see whether a thing is genuine or not), as metals

2) to recognise as genuine after examination, to approve, deem worthy

 


That is, the Bible requires us to prove all things. I agree. But I do not agree that evidence means prove. Some prove all things by the Bible. that is, if the Bible says it, then it is true. In this case, the Bible proves that God exists. However, I am unsure that you accept this.

Composer, what is evidence, and why do we need to use it? Do you mean that we should prove things by using the Bible? Why? Why not? Should we use science? Why? Where is your evidence for this?

I prove all things by the Bible. Therefore, all your questions regarding God's existence are proven. If you want to dispute this understanding ot the term 'evidence' then we may see you answwering my question finally.

However, becvause you used the Bible tas evidence that we need to use evidence, it seems that you believe the Bible is sufficient as evidence for the truth of a proposition. In this case, God exists. If however, you do not believe that the Bible is sufficient as evidence, then there are only two options:

You either have some other reason/evidence for the truth of the assertion that we should use evidence.

Or, You do not have any other reason/evidence for your claim that we need to use evidence.

If you want us to believe that we need to use evidence, based on a verse of the Bible, then you can not deny us our use of the Bible to prove that God exists. To use the Bible as evidence in support for the use of evidence, is to use the Bible as evidence. And if you allow us the use of the Bible as evidence, then God exists.

If you ask us for evidence other than the Bible, that God exists, then I ask you for evidence other than the Bible, that we need to use evidence.


kind regards
Composer
Reply with quote  #28 
Quote:
Originally Posted by troyjs
Quote:
Please start paying proper attention - My earlier Post#16 legitimately answered in full your question and you remain legitimately refuted.


This was your answer to my question: Where is your evidence that we need to use evidecnce?
Quote:

AV - prove 10, try 4, approve 3, discern 2, allow 2, like 1, examine 1; 23

1) to test, examine, prove, scrutinise (to see whether a thing is genuine or not), as metals

2) to recognise as genuine after examination, to approve, deem worthy

 


That is, the Bible requires us to prove all things. I agree. But I do not agree that evidence means prove. Some prove all things by the Bible. that is, if the Bible says it, then it is true. In this case, the Bible proves that God exists. However, I am unsure that you accept this.

Composer, what is evidence, and why do we need to use it? Do you mean that we should prove things by using the Bible? Why? Why not? Should we use science? Why? Where is your evidence for this?

I prove all things by the Bible. Therefore, all your questions regarding God's existence are proven. If you want to dispute this understanding ot the term 'evidence' then we may see you answwering my question finally.

However, becvause you used the Bible tas evidence that we need to use evidence, it seems that you believe the Bible is sufficient as evidence for the truth of a proposition. In this case, God exists. If however, you do not believe that the Bible is sufficient as evidence, then there are only two options:

You either have some other reason/evidence for the truth of the assertion that we should use evidence.

Or, You do not have any other reason/evidence for your claim that we need to use evidence.

If you want us to believe that we need to use evidence, based on a verse of the Bible, then you can not deny us our use of the Bible to prove that God exists. To use the Bible as evidence in support for the use of evidence, is to use the Bible as evidence. And if you allow us the use of the Bible as evidence, then God exists.

If you ask us for evidence other than the Bible, that God exists, then I ask you for evidence other than the Bible, that we need to use evidence.


kind regards

Instead of your continually disobeying this bible Story book jesus by your admission you are a malignant sinner in defiance of (Rom. 7:23) and thus in any context exposed as a fraudulent and rejected jesus' believer (Everyone who resides23 in him does not sin . . . . (1 John 3:6a) NET Story book
 
everyone who sins has neither seen him nor known him. (1 John 3:6b) NET Story book

Then in my ongoing benvolence and generosity in allowing you and those 100% failed believers like you, the opportunities for repeated attempts at some form of legitimacy for your wanna-be cause, despite your unambiguous repeated failures to date. So let's see you or any of your fellow cult members and their like minded associates, legitimately manifest the bible Story book promises already a given to a genuine Story book bible jesus' believer and shown previously also in my Post#25, repeated here again for your convenience -

These signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new languages;10 16:18 they will pick up snakes with their hands, and whatever poison they drink will not harm them;11 they will place their hands on the sick and they will be well.� (Mark. 16:17-18) NET story book

Take a trip here and under independent scrutiny let's see how you go? LOL!
 
My friend is a Film producer and Camera man and happy to record on film your efforts!
 
I'll personally refund your fare IF you or any are legitimately successful?
 
&

And whatsoever ye shall ask  in   my   name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified  in the Son.  14  If ye shall ask any thing  in   my   name, I will do [it]. (John 14:13-14) KJV story book
 
  If ye abide  in  me, and  my  words abide  in  you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. (John 15:7) KJV story book
 
  Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. (Matt. 10:8) KJV story book


I have a paraplegic friend you can demonstrate your genuine Faith and resultant promises on. We'll even refund your travel expenses after your success!

50 years I've been trying and the tally of genuine believers, currently remains at 0.

50 year tally of pretend believers with pitiful excuses for their failure = 100%

Any are welcome to try to legitimately break that 100% record of failure?


Meanwhile you ALL remain condemned as Story book jesus' frauds!

&

Firstly, please provide a sworn statement publicly here stating you have also literally done the following and obeyed your jesus in the following regard - i.e. have nothing in the way of earthly possessions except raiment/clothing & minimum means just sufficient for your daily food requirements and that you are content to remain that way -

iii) For we brought nothing into [this] world, [and  it is] certain we can carry nothing out.  8  And having  food   and   raiment  let us be therewith content. (1 Tim. 6:7-8) KJV bible story book

raiment  n. archaic clothing. (Pocket Oxford Dictionary/POD)

Strong's - BDB/Thayers # 4629

4629 skepasma skep'-as-mah} from a derivative of skepas (a covering; perhaps akin to the base of 4649 through the idea of noticeableness);; n n

AV - raiment 1; 1

1) a covering, spec. clothing


Providing you pass ALL those requirements as detailed from your bible Story book, I will accept as legitimate evidence those quotes and its promises, then we'll talk more!

I prophesy only more of your empty and pathetic BS excuses for your repeated failures, so you have the extra bonus opportunity of proving me wrong in these matters!
 
Off ya go! (I shan't hold my breath!) LOL!
 





troyjs
Reply with quote  #29 

Composer,

I think 50 years is a long time to come up with an answer to the question: What is your evidence that we need evidence?

Having refused to answer my question -- or to address my exegeses of the texts, or even to provide any exegesis yourself, I believe I must take it upon myself to help you. In my next post, I will provide provide justifications of your position, then I will attempt to demonstrate why said justifications fail, then I will attempt to demonstrate why all justifications of your position fail, in all possible worlds.



kind regards
Composer
Reply with quote  #30 
Quote:
Originally Posted by troyjs

Composer,

I think 50 years is a long time to come up with an answer to the question: What is your evidence that we need evidence?

Having refused to answer my question . . . .

I refused no such a thing and the facts repeatedly decimated your claims by my providing the evidence the Story book jesus promises a genuine Story book jesus' believer will manifest -
 
e.g. http://rfforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/show_single_post?pid=1270146097&postcount=69

&

http://rfforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/show_single_post?pid=1270130463&postcount=28
 
You have abismally failed to legitimately manifest those promises and hence I successfully exposed your latest fraudulent claims also!

Much much better luck any actual attempts you ever wish to make in support of your current cause!



Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:



Important: The Reasonable Faith forums have moved to: www.reasonablefaith.org/forums/






Powered by Website Toolbox - Create a Website Forum Hosting, Guestbook Hosting, or Website Chat Room for your website.