Maxeo
Registered: 06/13/09
Posts: 1,718
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| | 07/26/09 at 10:35 AM | Reply with quote | #1 |
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| Atheists, can you appreciate evangelism? If you believe someone is on a path headed for hell and there's a Savior to bear their sin and guilt, how much do you have to hate someone to not share the gospel?
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The first to present his case seems right until
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Snakeystew
Registered: 04/04/08
Posts: 2,755
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| | 07/31/09 at 08:55 PM | Reply with quote | #2 |
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Quote: If you believe someone is on a path headed for hell and there's a Savior to bear their sin and guilt, how much do you have to hate someone to not share the gospel?
I suppose it depends where you are and does it have to be 9am on a Saturday morning?
The thing is, it's not like - here in the western world - that people haven't heard it all before. And when does it stop? When does it become intrusion? Is it not intrusion when you start preaching to a hindu?
Frankly I would submit that you're not doing favours, you're just alienating people. Make the offer - put up billboards and advertisements if you must. Shoving it in someones lap is rude.
Having said that, I welcome you to my house as long as you bring some proper evidence with you.
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Maxeo
Registered: 06/13/09
Posts: 1,718
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| | 07/31/09 at 09:23 PM | Reply with quote | #3 |
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| Snake,
No one said anything about shoving the gospel down throats of people. Jesus said to simply dust the dust from you feet from the city that rejects you. This just means they don't want it, they reject it, keep going elsewhere. Your sarcasm is not reasonable Snake, your maturity level is that of a preteen, please grow up.
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The first to present his case seems right until
another comes forward and questions him. -Prov. 18.17
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Snakeystew
Registered: 04/04/08
Posts: 2,755
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| | 07/31/09 at 09:53 PM | Reply with quote | #4 |
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Quote: No one said anything about shoving the gospel down throats of people 1. You're right, that includes me. Why did you bring it up?
2. Let's say we truly believe that the gospel is entirely true and that only with the saviour Jesus shall anyone see heaven. If I do not tell people, they will go to hell. What else can possibly be meant but shoving it "in someones lap" (No maxeo, I didn't say down someones throat - kindly read statements before making ad homs)? C'mon, wouldn't you be very quick to knock on the door of the hindu and tell him he's wrong, you're right?
I suppose it depends what 'shoving' entails. On my part I meant it thusly: There are a couple of ways of doing things. I suppose, for sake of the discussion, I refer to the difference between cold-calling and owning a shop. Perhaps you don't understand what I'm trying to say - that's fine, but let's not just resort to pointless ad hom. K?
Quote: Your sarcasm is not reasonable Snake, your maturity level is that of a preteen, please grow up.
It wasn't sarcastic at all and I find your personal attack vastly less mature than anything in my post. If at any stage you'd like to discuss the actual issue kindly let me know.
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Maxeo
Registered: 06/13/09
Posts: 1,718
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| | 07/31/09 at 10:04 PM | Reply with quote | #5 |
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Quote: Frankly I would submit that you're not doing favours, you're just alienating people. Make the offer - put up billboards and advertisements if you must. Shoving it in someones lap is rude.
I figured shoving it in someone's lap was a figure of speech equivalent to shoving it down someone's throat, you brought it up, not me.
I sensed sarcasm, if it was true with not sarcasm then I apologize for my misinterpretation, if it were it would have been childish. I ask that you forgive me.
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The first to present his case seems right until
another comes forward and questions him. -Prov. 18.17
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NoMereRanger303
Registered: 02/04/09
Posts: 181
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| | 07/31/09 at 10:05 PM | Reply with quote | #6 |
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Snake - how do you define "shoving" and "rudeness"?
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Snakeystew
Registered: 04/04/08
Posts: 2,755
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| | 07/31/09 at 10:09 PM | Reply with quote | #7 |
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Quote: I figured shoving it in someone's lap was a figure of speech equivalent to shoving it down someone's throat, you brought it up, not me.
What you "figured" doesn't validate personal attack.
Quote: I ask that you forgive me
On the condition that you answer my questions perhaps. Seriously, when does a desire to spread what you believe to be good news, (but others probably don't want to know about), become intrusion?
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Quote: Snake - how do you define "shoving" and "rudeness"?
In this instance: "shoving" = the difference between cold-calling and opening a shop. If what I'm saying isn't understood, kindly request clarification. As for rudeness, in this instance it's akin to knocking on the door of a house with a jewish sign on the front.
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Maxeo
Registered: 06/13/09
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| | 07/31/09 at 10:23 PM | Reply with quote | #8 |
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| If sharing the gospel with other faiths is rude, then no one hears the gospel. It's rude if Christian's continue to present when informed not to by the person. (I hope this answers your question)
Please tell me how my figure was wrong. What's the difference between "Shoving down someone's throat" and "Shoving it in someone's lap."
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The first to present his case seems right until
another comes forward and questions him. -Prov. 18.17
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Snakeystew
Registered: 04/04/08
Posts: 2,755
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| | 07/31/09 at 11:40 PM | Reply with quote | #9 |
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Quote: If sharing the gospel with other faiths is rude, then no one hears the gospel.
I disagree. As a christian, you of all people should appreciate free choice. The wise man himself - arguably the wisest of wisest - doesn't knock on your door, hand out leaflets or preach - instead, apparently, he leaves you to seek him on your own terms.
To me there's a distinct difference between selling someone something and letting someone choose what to buy. It's why I mentioned cold-callers vs shops. Every day I pass by a church or ten. If I choose to find out what it's all about, the door is apparently always open. There is - to me at least - a serious difference between that and banging on my window.
This is what I mean by "shoving". As a christian I would fully expect you to understand it. Perhaps I am mistaken.
Regards,
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idrovetheepb
Registered: 06/01/09
Posts: 233
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| | 08/01/09 at 10:54 AM | Reply with quote | #10 |
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Quote: Please tell me how my figure was wrong. What's the difference between "Shoving down someone's throat" and "Shoving it in someone's lap."
one tends to make the person choke
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Maxeo
Registered: 06/13/09
Posts: 1,718
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| | 08/01/09 at 11:24 AM | Reply with quote | #11 |
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lol why didn't I figure that out!?
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The first to present his case seems right until
another comes forward and questions him. -Prov. 18.17
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idrovetheepb
Registered: 06/01/09
Posts: 233
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| | 08/01/09 at 12:56 PM | Reply with quote | #12 |
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Quote: lol why didn't I figure that out!?
don't worry about it man, things slip by even very intelligent people sometimes!
haha! j/k brotha man
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etiainen
Registered: 07/15/08
Posts: 531
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| | 08/01/09 at 03:47 PM | Reply with quote | #13 |
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I think it's the method of evangelism that's really being called into question here - and maybe Snakey has a point to some degree? He mentioned people knocking at 9am on a Saturday morning and that can be frustrating. I had a JW guy who came to see me in my student house at music college - which was great! We had some fantastic conversation and I learned LOADS about his views. The trouble is, he often came at 10am on Saturday after I'd had a really late night out on Friday - it could sometimes be quite hard to engage on any meaningful level. I guess what I'm saying is that maybe to love someone is to recognise that people are individuals - most of whom would rather not feel imposed upon... particularly not at such an early hour on a day off work!
My brother does some door knocking in London - but thats because he lives on a rough estate and works with a charity that seeks to help people out who need it. Through door knocking he's managed to be there for dying alcoholics, forgotten elderly people an ex WWF wrestler and even an actor from a Harry Potter movie (:-P) his work is making a seriously positive difference where he's from - so sometimes I feel its very appropriate. I imagine a lot of people though will be touched by someone who invests genuine time into building a meaningful relationship rather than someone who 'knocks to convert'
Dear me! Long winded post!!
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Maxeo
Registered: 06/13/09
Posts: 1,718
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| | 08/01/09 at 03:59 PM | Reply with quote | #14 |
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| etianinen,
Oh yeah, there's a difference between caring about the lost and not-caring which is kinda more my angle. Yeah, there are methods, which should be preferred over another. Whether it be door knocking (which I don't like by the way), or conversational interaction or approaching someone like Penn talks about.
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The first to present his case seems right until
another comes forward and questions him. -Prov. 18.17
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rsmartin
Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 2,476
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| | 08/01/09 at 07:06 PM | Reply with quote | #15 |
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Quote: Originally Posted by MaxeoAtheists, can you appreciate evangelism? If you believe someone is on a path headed for hell and there's a Savior to bear their sin and guilt, how much do you have to hate someone to not share the gospel?
Let's put it this way:
Christians, can you appreciate knowledge? If you believe humanity is aiming to repeat the Dark Ages and you know that today's knowledge has saved humanity from the Dark Ages and accompanying misery, how much do you have to hate humanity not to do all within your power to halt this decent into darkness?
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It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. –Carl Sagan, Demon-Haunted World, p. 12 |
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