eric
Registered: 12/03/07
Posts: 4,158
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| | 07/07/09 at 01:04 PM | Reply with quote | #1 |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeE2xg3REtA
Watch this dying Christian man's statement, which he asked his wife and daughter to record and post on Youtube. He left this world within hours of saying these words. Some things you have to ask yourself while watching it:
- Is he lying? I really really don't think a devout Christian man would tell a big lie about what he saw, to thousands of people, as his last act on behalf of the God of Truth he worships.
- Did he halluicinate it? I really don't think so. It's a bit too Biblically orthodox to be an 'opium dream.'
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MetalforJesus
Registered: 03/09/09
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| | 07/07/09 at 06:50 PM | Reply with quote | #2 |
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Now, that was mind blowing. My stepfather died of cancer two years ago and, while he lived most of his life as an ardent atheist, he converted and accepted Jesus into his heart just three weeks before he died. Thank you for posting this.
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"Part of Christian belief is to find out what's true about Jesus and let that challenge our culture." - N.T. Wright |
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eric
Registered: 12/03/07
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| | 07/07/09 at 07:43 PM | Reply with quote | #3 |
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Glad you appreciated it.
What you described about your stepdad is what I have in mind when I warn unbelievers about hell. They don't believe me now or anyone else who is saying the same, but later on... they may find themselves saying, "What if..... What if..." They may look back upon their life and know they are not going to heaven, if it exists. Especially if they've been an ardent atheist! Even the ardent atheist has some resident uncertainty about the correctness of his ardently held position, and this will likely come to the fore as death approaches and he is about to make the Great Change.
There's the old saying, "There are no atheists in foxholes."
I've heard and read about this kind of thing happening enough to know that it must happen a lot.
Also, age and infirmity tend to humble a person. Not everyone, but many.
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eric
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| | 07/07/09 at 08:00 PM | Reply with quote | #4 |
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I have to say: when you watch this video, please do not just read the subtitles, but watch the man's expression when he speaks of what he was shown. It is powerful. This man's statement is a first-person, warning, from first-hand knowledge and experience, to you who continue to reject the love of Christ. Do not be so foolish as to scoff. He's not going to make any money from book sales, or the lecture circuit. He only wants you to listen to what he saw so you can be in bliss and not be in torment.
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darrinrasberry
Registered: 09/02/08
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| | 07/07/09 at 08:06 PM | Reply with quote | #5 |
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I appreciate the man's message but would disagree that he has a direct revelation from God. That was supposedly finished at the conclusion of Revelation. He makes sensible arguments and powerful convictions of his faith, but he does have missteps, such as misquoting John 3:16. That last point of course is perfectly okay and understandable given the man's condition at the time of the video, but it does not harmonize with a direct revelation from the direct author of that verse.
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eric
Registered: 12/03/07
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| | 07/07/09 at 08:14 PM | Reply with quote | #6 |
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That is so disputed.
Revelation's canonicity is disputed as well. In some parts of the world, it's not part of the NT. Martin Luther, for example, rejected it on several grounds. Calvin left it out of his commentaries. The Greek Orthodox church doesn't preach from it.
The prophet Joel says that in the end times, people will prophesy and receive visions and dreams by the Holy Spirit.
PS The man in the video wasn't quoting John's gospel as being part of his revelation.
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One person with God is a majority.
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MetalforJesus
Registered: 03/09/09
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| | 07/07/09 at 08:18 PM | Reply with quote | #7 |
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Quote: Originally Posted by darrinrasberryI appreciate the man's message but would disagree that he has a direct revelation from God. That was supposedly finished at the conclusion of Revelation. He makes sensible arguments and powerful convictions of his faith, but he does have missteps, such as misquoting John 3:16. That last point of course is perfectly okay and understandable given the man's condition at the time of the video, but it does not harmonize with a direct revelation from the direct author of that verse.
Awesome picture of a funnel cloud!
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enarchay
Registered: 04/29/09
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| | 07/07/09 at 08:23 PM | Reply with quote | #8 |
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I tend to doubt such experiences, because I highly doubt that even if there is a hell, one will experience it immediately after death. The emphasis in the Bible is on resurrection. These experiences take away from that emphasis and seem to paint more of a Platonic picture. Moreover, even if one experiences hell in the intermediate state, I doubt it is as describable as people make it out to be.
These experiences are also supposed to convert people, but when I hear them, it makes me want to de-convert.
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eric
Registered: 12/03/07
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| | 07/07/09 at 08:44 PM | Reply with quote | #9 |
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Quote: The emphasis in the Bible is on resurrection.
OK, but where's hell located?
And how do you know that such experiences are synchronous between this present world and the others visited? How do you know that what's being shown in these visits is contemporary to earth-time?
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enarchay
Registered: 04/29/09
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| | 07/07/09 at 08:48 PM | Reply with quote | #10 |
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Quote:
OK, but where's hell located?
What do you mean? I don't really think hell is located anywhere yet. God has not yet renewed the current earth or created a new one (depending on your interpretation).
Quote: And how do you know that such experiences are synchronous between this present world and the others visited?
Good point. But even if the experiences are real, I don't think they are beneficial, since, as I said, they delude Christian doctrine and replace the emphasis in the wrong place.
P.S. I'm not even sure if it is logically possible to travel to the future (or experience the future or whatever).
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eric
Registered: 12/03/07
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| | 07/07/09 at 09:22 PM | Reply with quote | #11 |
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Quote: Originally Posted by enarchayQuote:
OK, but where's hell located?
What do you mean? I don't really think hell is located anywhere yet. God has not yet renewed the current earth or created a new one (depending on your interpretation). Quote: And how do you know that such experiences are synchronous between this present world and the others visited? Good point. But even if the experiences are real, I don't think they are beneficial, since, as I said, they delude Christian doctrine and replace the emphasis in the wrong place. P.S. I'm not even sure if it is logically possible to travel to the future (or experience the future or whatever).
I mean to say, where's the hell that God knows about and Jesus spoke about located? Is it in the new earth?
How does that experience dilute Christian doctrine?
Also, it's been a while, can you tell me the books which teach the 'new earth'?
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skunker
Registered: 12/07/07
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enarchay
Registered: 04/29/09
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| | 07/08/09 at 03:31 PM | Reply with quote | #13 |
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Quote: I mean to say, where's the hell that God knows about and Jesus spoke about located? Is it in the new earth?
It's not "located" anywhere, as it has not yet been brought about. If you mean "where will it be located," then yes, the renewed/new earth.
Quote: How does that experience dilute Christian doctrine?
Because it causes people to focus on life after death, rather than life after life after death, which is the Christian message. How many uneducated atheists do you think realize that the most important hope of Christianity is new bodily life? These experiences further this misunderstanding.
Now, what if Jesus specified in these experiences, "This is yet to come, when the dead will rise to new bodily life, and the earth will be made new"? That might be a different story.
Quote: can you tell me the books which teach the 'new earth'?
You mean in the Bible? Isaiah, Paul, Revelation.
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eric
Registered: 12/03/07
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| | 07/08/09 at 03:34 PM | Reply with quote | #14 |
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OK where do the dead in Christ and the raptured saints go once they have been transformed with resurrection bodies? Directly to the new earth?
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enarchay
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| | 07/08/09 at 03:39 PM | Reply with quote | #15 |
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Quote: OK where do the dead in Christ and the raptured saints go once they have been transformed with resurrection bodies?
Raptured? I don't really know of any serious theologians or biblical scholars who hold to that interpretation anymore.
As for the intermediate state, I think it is ambiguous. The Hebrew Bible holds that all the dead go to Sheol. Some descriptions of Sheol suggest a quasi-materialist approach to the philosophy of mind, while others suggest a sort of neutral underworld. The New Testament has some passages that suggest Christians enter the presence of the Lord at death, but other than Luke 16, there is no indication as to what happens to the wicked.
If the soul's natural state is to be joined to a body, and death is an unfortunate drawing apart of the soul and body, then it seems likely to me that death - like brain damage - results in unconsciousness. Else why is death a great evil that resurrection will reverse, or why did God create souls joined to bodies in the first place?
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