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Originally Posted by saibomb
I was just thinkin around when I thought, may be the mere fact that anything exists at all (rather than nothing) is more amazing than any kind of thing that exists (like a tree or a universe or a God.) So even though God's existence may seem unbelievably amazing, the fact that something at all exists rather than nothing is even more amazing than God, with all his extraordinary attributes, existing. This makes God's existence more plausible because we see that if something that's more amazing than his existence exists, than His existence becomes more believable and not incomprehensible.

Does that make sense or do i not know what i'm talking about?

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If nothing existed at all, you wouldn't be around to marvel at that, either. It's really a mute point. I think this is a incredibly anthro-centric argument. It's like during the 13.5 billion years our current universe has been around before you existed, did it occur to you during that time how amazing existence itself is? I don't see why existence itself is all that amazing. Perhaps I'm taking it for granted, because we all do exist. But if I didn't exist, I wouldn't care about anyway, now would I?

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Originally Posted by saibomb


I'm not sure what you're arguing here. I think you may have missed the point. This sin't about us, whether we'd be here to "marvel" at existence or not.


I'm trying to show you: What is more incredible?

a) Something existing rather than nothing
b) God's existence

I think it's more incredible that something exists rather than nothing, than to think a being who already exists can have some extraordinary attributes.

But obviously something does exist, so therefore it's perfectly fine to assume that God CAN exist. I'm trying to show you God's existence MUST be possible because if something more amazing than his existence exists (the mere fact of something existing rather than nothing) than it's logical to say that God's existence is possible (that it's not some far-fetched idea.)

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Which atheists think God's existence is too bizarre to be believable? Could you quote them and explain why you think that is what they are saying? Thank you. For the record, that [bolded part of quote] is the least of my concerns. God can do anything he likes, so long as we find evidence that he exists to begin with. I agree with tcampen on the question itself re Why does something exist rather than nothing, i.e. I don't find existence to be terribly amazing. I've heard the question and I have not yet been able to see any sense or wisdom in asking it or in seeking an answer for it. We're here; let's figure out how to make the best of the situation. If you're so taken up with the idea that "something exists rather than nothing" is marvelous, maybe it's because you have not yet looked at larger possibilities that have also been posited--ideas that suggest that the Big Bang may have been a fairly recent event compared to what else is out there (I do not herewith include supernatural realms and entities). Nobody on our planet knows whether or not this is the case, but hey! neither does anybody on our planet know for sure that your god exists. But anybody, even a child, can believe in fairies/gods who build palaces in the sky, as described in John 14. Believing in, and figuring out how, the evolution tale works is what takes humongous amounts of work. We've been at it for a good four centuries and now you crazy American religionists are doing what they can to halt the progress--nay, to negate it. WLC is one of the prime movers and shakers. You will undo in fifty years what took centuries to build up. Like the pyramids in Egypt, only the most rigorous geological structures will remain and all the rest will be destroyed by the ravages of time so that posterity will never know a thousand years hence how they were built. Is this--such wanton neglect and intentional destruction of human knowledge and social progress--what Jesus meant by using one's talent?

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Which atheists think God's existence is too bizarre to be believable?

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I don't find existence to be terribly amazing.