NoMereRanger303
Registered: 02/04/09
Posts: 157
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Reply with quote | #1 |
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1891230,00.html
This article makes me wonder, do you guys feel an increased trend in atheism? Not just in England, but also here in America. I've read several articles talking about the lessening of Christianity in first-world countries and its resurgence in third-world countries.
This is a social question - not really a philosophical one - but why do you think this trend exists? Some people I've talked to blame 9/11 (which essentially boils down to people renouncing the faith due to the Problem of Evil), but what about things like WWII and the Holocaust? But surely knowledge of the extent of evil has been in the minds of first-worlders for awhile now.
Others say it's Dawkins, Hitchens, and Harris and other leading activists - but I honestly think that's giving too much credit to them. In my opinion, atheism is not becoming more popular due to activists - but rather the other way around.
Maybe it's just me, but it seems like atheism has become much more prominent in the mainstream forums, not just in public discussion. The topic interests me so if anyone has any thoughts...
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Snakeystew
Registered: 04/04/08
Posts: 2,398
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Reply with quote | #2 |
I think you'll find it's not so much an "increased trend" as it is an increased freedom with which to come out of the closet.
The reason for the vast difference between religiosity in 1st world and religiosity in 3rd world, (other than US), is bound to exist due to the greater needs of those living in disease ridden, poverty stricken regions as opposed to those living with Xbox.
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fkeefe
Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 858
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Reply with quote | #3 |
Quote: Originally Posted by NoMereRanger303http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1891230,00.htmlThis article makes me wonder, do you guys feel an increased trend in atheism? Not just in England, but also here in America. I've read several articles talking about the lessening of Christianity in first-world countries and its resurgence in third-world countries. This is a social question - not really a philosophical one - but why do you think this trend exists? Some people I've talked to blame 9/11 (which essentially boils down to people renouncing the faith due to the Problem of Evil), but what about things like WWII and the Holocaust? But surely knowledge of the extent of evil has been in the minds of first-worlders for awhile now. Others say it's Dawkins, Hitchens, and Harris and other leading activists - but I honestly think that's giving too much credit to them. In my opinion, atheism is not becoming more popular due to activists - but rather the other way around. Maybe it's just me, but it seems like atheism has become much more prominent in the mainstream forums, not just in public discussion. The topic interests me so if anyone has any thoughts...
This is true but is no surprise for the Christian:
From http://www.albertmohler.com
Without doubt, the decline in Christian belief and the massive transformation of European lifestyles and moral expectations go hand in hand. As a matter of fact, it may be impossible to determine just how these trends work together within the process of secularization. As Christian conviction declines, Christian morality gives way to the ethos of moral individualism, sexual libertinism, and eroding commitment to marriage, children, and family. It was prophesied by Jesus that just before He returns at the end of time that these things would happen
Matth 24:37 For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, 39 and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
[Matthew 24:9-14]
Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
(2 Peter 3:3-12).
First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers [empaiktes] will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation." But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men. But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare. Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat .
So you see no surprise about faith declining just before the end it was prophesied 2000 years ago by Jesus Himself
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harvey1
Registered: 12/04/07
Posts: 3,252
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Reply with quote | #4 |
Quote: Originally Posted by NoMereRanger303
Maybe it's just me, but it seems like atheism has become much more prominent in the mainstream forums, not just in public discussion. The topic interests me so if anyone has any thoughts...
However, don't be too concerned. There was a much more skeptical age a century ago. It's part of a cycle.
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bcaserto
Registered: 03/13/08
Posts: 310
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Reply with quote | #5 |
I wonder if the perception that atheism is increasing is due in large part to the increasing acceptibility of atheism as a worldview by society at large. This would allow the closet atheists to become more vocal, and maybe influence some church-goers to abandon the family tradition of outward religious observance. Just speculation 
From a fundamental perspective sin breeds sin. So without some activity from the Christians to promote the moral code of Christianity it will eventually be outnumbered. |
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harvey1
Registered: 12/04/07
Posts: 3,252
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rsmartin
Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 2,370
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Reply with quote | #7 |
Quote: Originally Posted by harvey1Quote: Originally Posted by NoMereRanger303
Maybe it's just me, but it seems like atheism has become much more prominent in the mainstream forums, not just in public discussion. The topic interests me so if anyone has any thoughts... I think there is a trend away from Christian belief and more toward pantheistic beliefs. A lot of it is due to the failure of Christian churches and Christian parents to instill faith in their children
No Harvey. For those Christians who have the courage and stamina and faith and will power to look at the real reason people deconvert, it is the total lack of answers--in addition to the outright lies that Christianity preaches--that causes many people to deconvert. No seriously deep-thinking truth-lover can remain a traditional orthodox Christian. For some people it is the very serious hypocrisy of Christian leaders inside and outside of the church. For very many homosexuals it is the total rejection of them as human beings starting with the time-honoured biblical KJV text.
For Christians to pretend it is really something else is for Christians to practice self-deception. I can see that self-deception would be preferable to the truth because the true reasons indicate that Christians, too, might one day lose their faith. None-the-less, the truth remains.
Are people turning to pantheism instead? I don't know. I don't think that pantheism is better in the long run; I think it's a "half-way house" kind of thing for a de-Christianizing society. I know some people feel the ancient pre-Christian European pagan religions are better suited to us who are descended from European stock than is an imported desert god from the Middle East, also known as the Judeo-Christian God. There may be some merit to that idea, at least for those of us who live in a northern climate.
The hot dry climate of the Holy Lands does not speak to me at all, while the moist and musty woodlands of Lord of the Rings does a much better job. I know a person for whom Lord of the Rings has pretty much taken the place of the Bible. Since the stories in Lord of the Rings are just as realistic as the stories in the Bible, I don't think anyone should have a problem with that. Just to be clear, I'm not talking about myself; I'm atheist. Pagans or pantheists are not atheist because they believe in a supernatural realm of some kind.
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wonderer
Registered: 09/08/08
Posts: 2,560
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Reply with quote | #8 |
Quote: Originally Posted by rsmartin
For Christians to pretend it is really something else is for Christians to practice self-deception. I can see that self-deception would be preferable to the truth because the true reasons indicate that Christians, too, might one day lose their faith. None-the-less, the truth remains.
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“It is in the admission of ignorance and the admission of uncertainty that there is a hope for the continuous motion of human beings in some direction that doesn't get confined, permanently blocked, as it has so many times before in various periods in the history of man." - Richard Feynman |
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harvey1
Registered: 12/04/07
Posts: 3,252
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Reply with quote | #9 |
Quote: Originally Posted by rsmartin
. . .in addition to the outright lies that Christianity preaches--that causes many people to deconvert. . . . For some people it is the very serious hypocrisy of Christian leaders inside and outside of the church. For very many homosexuals it is the total rejection of them as human beings starting with the time-honoured biblical KJV text.
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harvey1
Registered: 12/04/07
Posts: 3,252
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Reply with quote | #10 |
Quote: Originally Posted by wonderer
Exactly. The only problem here Wonderer is that atheists believe in infinities that can be traversed, universes that pop out of nothing for no reason, etc. I wouldn't wear that "exactly" with a lot of pride. |
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billclute
Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 1,760
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Reply with quote | #11 |
Quote: No seriously deep-thinking truth-lover can remain a traditional orthodox Christian.
If I could only figure out which part applies to me. I'm either:
1. Not serious
2. Not a deep thinker
3. Not a lover of truth or
4. Not a traditional orthodox Christian
I really thought I was a traditional orthodox Christian but maybe I never seriously took the time to deeply think about what that truly is because let's face it, the truth can hurt so who would love it?
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wonderer
Registered: 09/08/08
Posts: 2,560
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Reply with quote | #12 |
Quote: Originally Posted by harvey1Quote: Originally Posted by wonderer
Exactly. The only problem here Wonderer is that atheists believe in infinities that can be traversed, universes that pop out of nothing for no reason, etc. I wouldn't wear that "exactly" with a lot of pride.
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“It is in the admission of ignorance and the admission of uncertainty that there is a hope for the continuous motion of human beings in some direction that doesn't get confined, permanently blocked, as it has so many times before in various periods in the history of man." - Richard Feynman |
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harvey1
Registered: 12/04/07
Posts: 3,252
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Reply with quote | #13 |
Quote: Originally Posted by wonderer
No Harvey, I don't consciously believe in anything without good evidence. I can just say, "I don't know.", about things which there simply isn't much evidence upon which to base a conclusion.
Then why don't you consider yourself an agnostic? |
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wonderer
Registered: 09/08/08
Posts: 2,560
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Reply with quote | #14 |
Quote: Originally Posted by harvey1Quote: Originally Posted by wonderer
No Harvey, I don't consciously believe in anything without good evidence. I can just say, "I don't know.", about things which there simply isn't much evidence upon which to base a conclusion.
Then why don't you consider yourself an agnostic?
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“It is in the admission of ignorance and the admission of uncertainty that there is a hope for the continuous motion of human beings in some direction that doesn't get confined, permanently blocked, as it has so many times before in various periods in the history of man." - Richard Feynman |
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harvey1
Registered: 12/04/07
Posts: 3,252
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Reply with quote | #15 |
Quote: Originally Posted by wonderer
I do. However I consider atheist a more effective word for conveying my perspective succinctly. People hearing "agnostic" are likely to interpret that as indicative of lack of a strong belief one way or the other. It's convenient to have a one word method of summarizing my viewpoint. Those interested in a more nuanced understanding are going to have to put work into getting such an understanding anyway, and if that work is done, then such labels will be irrelevant, in comparison to the more nuanced understanding. So, since you lack the road rage mentality, can we say that an atheist is an agnostic with road rage? =) |
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