Lightfoot
Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 1,989
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| | 04/18/09 at 02:51 PM | Reply with quote | #91 |
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Mathenaut
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That you would call any other religion a cult based solely upon conflicting theology just reeks of delicious irony. The fact that you don't see it is just icing on that cake. Speaking of cake, let's dig in:
Okay, challenge for you:
Where did I say that I call other religions "cults" "solely" on conflicting theology?
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First of all, I am compelled by conscience, empathy, and reason.
And I take it that you will have reason for thinking I based other religions as cults soley on conflicting theology.
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Second, If I disrupt a life set on course for a pointless life and time wasted in service to a myth, and it sets them right, then this disruption is well worth the effort.
So you don't believe "consenting adults" should be allowed to live as they please? Who are you to say that there life is "pointless" when they feel wonderful in their lives? Is not your life just as pointless, in that ultimately there is only death as a final answer?
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Third, I experience purpose, joy, and accomplishments that are all my own without the mental crutch of religion.
So talking about something like Zeus or Santa provides this joy? To me I don't see the "joy" your talking about. Your responses to people sound more "angry", are you sure that anger is not your crutch?
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Fo(u)rth, I actually take serious the future of the next generation, and how this ignorance will affect them.
Well, so far one of the *REAL THINGS* that can wipe out humanity is the build up of Nukes. That can affect the next generation as well as Global Warming.
Those seem more a direct threat, religion has been around thosands upon thosands of years, yet it can't wipe out humanity.
Why are you not using your "noble" pursuits in fighting what I just mentioned? Why waste time on Santa?
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Fifth, I have seen the fruits of deconversion with Christians, Muslims, Scientologists, and other members of popular cults. It is a great thing to see people living free of that.
Free like yourself? Bound to anger and ridicule? Wasting time on Santa? Is that your idea of freedom?
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Sixth, I ridicule the gospel and the people who take it seriously to demonstrate to them, and others, just how ridiculous it all is. Some, myself included, enjoy it for it's own sake, like we'd enjoy the musings of insult comics. Others don't like it so much...for the same reasons they don't like it when people ridicule the retarded.
Which of course in the face of your "noble pursuits" seems all the more reason for you to get on with fighting the things that can actually destroy humanity.
You do have One Life correct? You do believe we don't get another chance?
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Seven, I love when theists present their case with the other side present, many then get to see how silly their religion is.
That doesn't seem to happen when William Lane Craig shows up for a debate for the last 20 years now does it?
Quote: Additionally, rsmartin compared christianity to santa, not because he was arguing santa, but because we don't argue santa. We don't argue about santa because we know it's false, makes no sense, and is generally silly.
That is my point. Think about what you just said. "you don't argue about Santa because you know its false."
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Christianity is no different, which makes it all the more ridiculous that we honestly need to have these discussions to keep you christians from hurting yourselves and, more importantly, others.
Yet what seriously can hurt people, is things like bombs and nukes, global warming etc.
Why not put 100% into fighting those things,without being sidetracked by Santa?
__________________
"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell."
C.S Lewis |
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rsmartin
Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 2,480
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| | 04/18/09 at 11:57 PM | Reply with quote | #92 |
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Quote: Originally Posted by fkeefeQuote: Originally Posted by MathenautQuote: Originally Posted by rsmartin
Actually, I think Lightfoot gets this when he asks why do we argue for something we don't think exists. I think he's trying to turn our own argument back on us. As you, Mathenaut, or someone else said, I don't think the aim of this thread is what he claims it to be. LF is not that honest and transparent. In my experience he is quite the opposite. He's been taking a different tactic with me recently but my guess is that's just because he decided on a different tactic.
Never underestimate the trickery of a Christian. In my experience, the Christians on these forums are con-men to the core. In my opinion, there is nothing as evil as iniquity justified by religion. If something appears honest, it's nothing but appearances. *All that glitters is not gold.* You bear much wisdom, and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. Quote:
I'm sure some of the stuff in this post sounds down-right ridiculous and even scandalous to Christians. But it sounds perfectly logical to me as an atheist and I'm sure it would sound comforting to people from certain other religions whom Christianity and/or Judaism have been oppressing for hundreds, or even thousands, of years.
That picture of Thor was not from my post (though I would be proud if I knew where to find such grand pictures of the gods) so I deleted it.
A wise teacher said:
Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely...Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward...for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
I claim that promise. You have spoken "all manner of evil against me falsely." That tells me that my post is more accurate than I ever imagined. Had my post just been so much babble you would not have responded so strongly.
The passage is from Matt. 5:11-12.
__________________
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. –Carl Sagan, Demon-Haunted World, p. 12 |
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rsmartin
Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 2,480
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| | 04/19/09 at 01:01 AM | Reply with quote | #93 |
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Quote: Originally Posted by LightfootQuote: Originally Posted by Mathenaut
Christianity is no different, which makes it all the more ridiculous that we honestly need to have these discussions to keep you christians from hurting yourselves and, more importantly, others.
Yet what seriously can hurt people, is things like bombs and nukes, global warming etc. Why not put 100% into fighting those things,without being sidetracked by Santa?
As you full well know, Lightfoot, and as has been amply demonstrated in this thread, we use Santa as an analogy for the stupid god in whose name you build these weapons of mass destruction by which to manipulate your Jesus into making an appearance, also known as the Second Coming.
As real as is the jolly ol' fat man who brings gifts down non-existent chimneys to children of rich Christian families in Western countries--that is how real is this God of Abraham in whose name the Christians, Jews, and Muslims have been killing each other ever since there have been Christians, Jews, and Muslims.
Now if that does not make Santa relevant to this thread, please remember that it was you who posted this thread with the claim that you wished to better understand the atheist. And when we explained you started asking irrelevant questions about Santa Claus and other stuff. You asked; we answered. Whether or not you like the answer is not exactly the point.
If you don't wish for us to talk to you about mythical characters, all you have to do is quit killing--and otherwise hurting--people in the name of mythical characters. "Hurting people" includes making laws against women, gays, science, and other means of social progress. Is that clear enough or must we use more graphic language?
By way of further conversation...It's quite obvious that if atheists believed in using lethal weapons as strongly as they believe in using words to accomplish their goals, that there would be few religious people left on this planet. Indeed, if we believed as strongly as many religious people do in killing people with whom we disagree about the most important issues of life and death there would be few religious people left. We've got brains and we don't hesitate to use them; religious people have a guy in the sky very like the man in the red suit who squeezes down non-existent chimneys of modern houses that are centrally heated with oil, gas, or electricity and who disproportionately leaves gifts for children of well-to-do families.
Your guy-in-the-sky promises to answer prayer but when it comes to gifts at Christmas he mostly answers the prayers of children in well-to-do families. He so reliably fails to answer the heart-felt longings of amputees that they daren't even put their deepest wishes into words. The same goes for the general poverty-stricken masses of humanity, homosexuals and others who don't fit but who are born into fundy religion that is unkind to anyone who fails to fit the mould...
Not that you, Lightfoot, will read or accept the argument in this post but maybe someone will.
__________________
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. –Carl Sagan, Demon-Haunted World, p. 12 |
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