|frank n. ernest|
| Posted 11/06/07 at 09:58 PM||Reply with quote #46 |
|Interesting observation Eric. Maybe that verse shouldn't be in the Bible, as with other late additions, like the end of Mark. |
Off the top of my head, I can't think of another place where God gives forgiveness without repentance first. Can anybody else recall that (God's forgivenness without repentance) happening elsewhere in the Bible?
| Posted 12/13/07 at 04:48 AM||Reply with quote #47 |
|John 8:1-11 is somewhat relevant and interesting. Yet there is a note in my Bible that the earliest manuscripts do not have these verses. |
It is the account of the accused adulterous woman.
Jesus asks the woman who has condemned her. She replies that no one has. Jesus then says, "Then neither do I condemn you".
| Posted 12/13/07 at 08:31 PM||Reply with quote #48 |
|This may be slightly off topic (since I'm not too sure what the topic). But I wouldn't worry too much about the idea that early manuscripts are better. Where this can be tested (by checking, say, a manuscript's number of singular readings), earlier groups of texts (such as the Egyptian texts) don't fare so well. 'Earlier is better' has long been the watchword amongst textual critics. But, thankfully, things seem to be a-changing of late ... at least in certain circles...
| Posted 12/14/07 at 01:21 PM||Reply with quote #49 |
Can anybody else recall that (God's forgivenness without repentance) happening elsewhere in the Bible?
I think that is what the whole crucifixion / resurrection was about. We all owed a debt to God. Jesus paid that debt. The debt is already forgiven. Everyone is already forgiven.
Now it is the responsibility of each individual to see the error in their ways and turn back to God (i.e. repent) just like the prodigal son did with his father. If they don't repent then they will get what they have chosen...an eternity absent of God.
If the forgiveness had to wait for the repentance then it would be like crucifying Jesus over and over each time someone repents.
| Posted 02/16/08 at 11:24 AM||Reply with quote #50 |
What about those who actually have heard the Gospel but don't believe it? Do any of you think this is a just reason for God to punish people. Someone could know nothing about any evidence for Jesus' existence when he reads the Bible and could instead by seeing a world full of war, natural disasters, disease etc and just decide the text that was written a long, long time ago is a load of nonsense. That shouldn't count as rejecting God's love and I would doubt if God is just he would put that man in hell.
| Posted 02/16/08 at 12:42 PM||Reply with quote #51 |
You bring up a good point. We have to distinguish between rejecting the gospel and rejecting the true gospel. How do we know that a person who rejects Christianity really understands what he or she is rejecting? The short answer is that we don't; only God knows this. The person who has only a cursory understanding of the gospel is really in no better position than one who has never heard the gospel. In fact, one could argue that he is in a worse position, because a misunderstanding of the gospel may well predispose one to close his mind to any further inquiry.
| Posted 02/17/08 at 06:34 PM||Reply with quote #52 |
Cheers, that was a useful response.