| SceptiKarl |
| Posted 03/05/12 at 05:25 PM | Reply with quote #61 |
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Please forgive the various knowlegable theologians for not being aware of DNA. They couldn't possibly have known about it. Instead they have invented this whole "sin" thing which apparently permeates humankind. They "know" that, because a snake talked, long, long ago!
Cheers SK 
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| Blake1960 |
| Posted 03/28/12 at 01:15 AM | Reply with quote #62 |
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Quote: Originally Posted by SceptiKarlMindscape: Quote:
The problem with talking about the presumption of atheism is that if you are not careful, you will be taken to a point in a conversation where you have an underlying assumption that the theist has no positive evidence. You have to always talk from an 'even if'' position and constantly remind the atheist that there is good evidence at every opportunity otherwise the perception to the atheist and others around him will sound like a concession of blind faith.
Please feel free to enlighten this atheist about your "positive evidence". Please take every opportunity to disabuse me of the idea that you hold a "blind faith". To me, God and evidence are far removed from each other. But I'm willing to listen!
Cheers SK
Mere web forum chatter is unlikely to be informative. I suggest that if you are truly interested in the evidence for the existence of G-d that you avail yourself of the free resourced right here on Dr. Craig's web site.
http://www.reasonablefaith.org/site/PageServer?pagename=scholarly_articles_existence_of_God
http://www.reasonablefaith.org/site/PageServer?pagename=scholarly_articles_historical_Jesus
http://www.reasonablefaith.org/site/PageServer?pagename=popular_articles_Existence_and_Nature_of_God
http://www.reasonablefaith.org/site/PageServer?pagename=popular_articles_Jesus_Of_Nazareth
http://www.reasonablefaith.org/site/PageServer?pagename=popular_articles_Science_And_Theology
On the other hand, how can you rationalize that you were ultimately created by the universe/multiverse? What created the universe/multi-verse?
The atheist view is one of mindless, undirected unintended creation--atheists call it "evolution." The theist view is one of intended creation.
On their face, which really seems the most absurd idea?
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| Blake1960 |
| Posted 03/28/12 at 01:26 AM | Reply with quote #63 |
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Quote: Originally Posted by SceptiKarlBlake 1960: Quote: >>> the mother Mary was "immaculately" conceived
Like I've said repeatedly. I have no idea what you are talking about.
Well Blake, maybe you should brush up on your theology! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_ConceptionQuite how St Anne, came to be mother of Mary, must remain a theological mystery to me. There was I thinking that all the saints came after Jesus! In my part of the world, theologians have a habit of making things up as they go along! Cheers SK 
I'm neither a theologian, nor a Roman Catholic.
Jesus' two fathers? Seek truth.
Further Explanation.
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| SceptiKarl |
| Posted 03/28/12 at 04:51 PM | Reply with quote #64 |
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Blake1960:
Quote:
On the other hand, how can you rationalize that you were ultimately created by the universe/multiverse? What created the universe/multi-verse?
Well I don't know, but why insert an supernatural explanation? Apparently leading physicists / cosmologists like Hawking, Guth, Krauss, Vilenkin etc. think that the existing known laws of physics can explain the existence of the universe without recourse to the "outside nature" explanation which explains nothing and only adds another level of complication.
Quote:
The atheist view is one of mindless, undirected unintended creation--atheists call it "evolution." The theist view is one of intended creation.
I can't speak for all atheists, but my view is that the universe will carry on just fine whether or not we humans, planet Earth, the solar system, and even the Milky Way galaxy were to disappear tomorrow. How arrogant to think that the universe was created specially for humans! I suppose the use of the word "mindless" is some sort of objection to the way the universe actually behaves? Yes, I do think that individual particles and forces in the universe act in a "mindless" way. After all without them, we wouldn't have minds to ponder the question!
As for "unintended creation", most of the observable universe is hostile to life as we know it. But the universe is very, very, VERY BIG, and strange things happen all the time. IMO we happen to have been lucky! And however unlikely, life did start on Earth. Once started, evolution took over and after some 4 billion years here we are to talk about it! Quite remarkable, but, not "absurd" because it's a fact! It happened!
Cheers SK
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| SceptiKarl |
| Posted 03/28/12 at 05:05 PM | Reply with quote #65 |
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Blake1960 re Mary's lineage:
Quote: I'm neither a theologian, nor a Roman Catholic.
Jesus' two fathers? Seek truth.
I think Blake is missing my point, and btw, thanks for Joseph's 2 different lineages. But Joseph is irelevant, he wasn't Jesus's dad, that was the Holy Ghost. I don't care whether Blake is a Catholic or a Mormom, according to the Bible, Mary, mother of Jesus, was the one immaculately conceived. Therefore no human DNA! No original sin, - and no humanity either!
Cheers SK
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| SceptiKarl |
| Posted 03/28/12 at 05:58 PM | Reply with quote #66 |
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Blake1960 might like to have a look at this article about potential habitable planets:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2012/mar/28/billions-habitable-exoplanets-milky-way
Cheers SK
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| Blake1960 |
| Posted 03/28/12 at 06:06 PM | Reply with quote #67 |
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>>> But Joseph is irelevant, he wasn't Jesus's dad, that was the Holy Ghost.
Stop trolling. You raised the issue of Jesus having "two dads" trying to impugn scripture. You've now been thoughtfully educated. You're most welcome. 
>>> Therefore no human DNA! No original sin, - and no humanity either!
Another bizarre trollish comment that makes no sense. Where do you find that the presence of sin is carried in our DNA? The idea is laughable. Sin is borne by our soul. Tough to grasp if you don't think you have one though, so understandable.
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| SceptiKarl |
| Posted 04/01/12 at 03:23 PM | Reply with quote #68 |
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So apart from being a "fool" I am also a "troll". Is that the way you deal with opposing views Blake? Rather than answer my point you resort to an insult. Apparently I'm someone who doesn't deserve your precious time. Don't feed the troll Blake! The apparent fact that Jesus, according to scripture, (which musn't be questioned, according to Blake), had a mother who was immaculately conceived and a dad who was the Holy Ghost, meant that he was not a human being at all! According to scripture, Jesus was God, but there was no way, apart from magic that He was also a man! No wonder His body levitated itself to heaven. No possible means of testing the claim!
As for the "soul", - where do you get that ridiculous idea from? On second thoughts, don't bother to tell me. Let me guess. The very same "scripture" that had Jesus walking on water, a talking snake, a 6000 year old Earth, and men rising from being dead, among equally long stories!
Cheers SK
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| SceptiKarl |
| Posted 04/01/12 at 03:29 PM | Reply with quote #69 |
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Blake1960:
Quote: You've now been thoughtfully educated.
Well yes reasonably well educated, but I have learnt nothing new from you. Apart from the fact that you think I'm a fool and a troll. Too bad I can't please everyone!
Cheers SK
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