| Route_70 |
| Posted 05/14/12 at 07:40 AM | Reply with quote #1 |
|
| Just like you, I once was bogged down in mythology and superstition. My well-meaning parents had reared me to be a believer in something that is not tenable. I lived the first several years of my life concerned that there is an eternal destiny for all of mankind, namely heaven, a good place, and hell, a very, very bad place. I spent the first several years of my life concerned and worried for friends and family and their eternal condition. Furthermore, like you, I struggled with my beliefs -- wondering, doubting, unsure and constantly in need of reassurance.
Thankfully, I grew up and came to understand that Santa Clause is not real; the Easter Bunny is not real; the Boogey Man is not real; heaven is not real; hell is not real; God is not real. No more sleepless nights worrying about Johnny; praying for Johnny; "Oh God! Please help Johnny to see the error of his ways! Please save Johnny before it is too late!"
Ah, peace at last! Atheism offers a peace that theism never can. No more struggling with having to "prove" my position. No more throwing away money to a charlatan who claims to have all the answers. No more of this, this silly "apologetics!"
Ah, the peace and serenity of unbelief! |
| Loading... | |
| Noraaron |
| Posted 05/14/12 at 08:24 AM | Reply with quote #2 |
|
Quote: Originally Posted by Route_70 I spent the first several years of my life concerned and worried for friends and family and their eternal condition. Furthermore, like you, I struggled with my beliefs -- wondering, doubting, unsure and constantly in need of reassurance.
Thankfully, I grew up and came to understand that Santa Clause is not real; the Easter Bunny is not real; the Boogey Man is not real; heaven is not real; hell is not real; God is not real.
How does Atheism eliminate the questions of your concerns relating to eternal existence? It is is still a question to be answered.. it is just you don't think god is the answer? so what is your answer to your questions regarding your contemplation of eternity and certain end of existence ?
Quote: Ah, peace at last! Atheism offers a peace that theism never can.
Can Atheism answer all our existential questions easily?
Quote: No more struggling with having to "prove" my position. No more throwing away money to a charlatan who claims to have all the answers. No more of this, this silly "apologetics!"
Sounds too much like hard work... you might be on to something there.
Quote: Ah, the peace and serenity of unbelief!
how can a nonbelief give such effect??.... couldn't only knowledge of no god be the only satisfactory account for someone as rationale as you appear to be?
|
| Loading... | |
| zeloo777 |
| Posted 05/14/12 at 08:44 AM | Reply with quote #3 |
|
You really misunderstood Christian theism my friend! Sorry to hear that. So I can understand if that have been your circumstances, then it must feel like a relief, but that does of course not make it more than attractive for you, not real. But thanks for your insights they are valuable! |
| Loading... | |
| Route_70 |
| Posted 05/14/12 at 08:49 AM | Reply with quote #4 |
|
Quote: Originally Posted by NoraaronHow does Atheism eliminate the questions of your concerns relating to eternal existence? It is is still a question to be answered.. it is just you don't think god is the answer? so what is your answer to your questions regarding your contemplation of eternity and certain end of existence ?
Can Atheism answer all our existential questions easily?
Sounds too much like hard work... you might be on to something there.
how can a nonbelief give such effect??.... couldn't only knowledge of no god be the only satisfactory account for someone as rationale as you appear to be?
See what I mean? |
| Loading... | |
| johnBee |
| Posted 05/14/12 at 10:09 AM | Reply with quote #5 |
|
Quote: Originally Posted by Route_70 Ah, the peace and serenity of unbelief! I think I see what you're trying to say. Though I really don't see how anyone could claim peace and serenity given the conditions of life in which we life in. ie. A world filled with hate, conflict, disease and death. Therefore, what you call peace and serenity, I could only call giving-up.
|
| Loading... | |
| Route_70 |
| Posted 05/14/12 at 01:29 PM | Reply with quote #6 |
|
Quote: Originally Posted by johnBee
I really don't see how anyone could claim peace and serenity given the conditions of life in which we life in. ... Therefore, what you call peace and serenity, I could only call giving-up.
I see. So being a Christian doesn't help. That's what I mean. The only way to have true peace is not to be a Christian. |
| Loading... | |
| TheProblemOfAtheism |
| Posted 05/15/12 at 05:03 AM | Reply with quote #7 |
|
Quote: Originally Posted by Route_70Just like you, I once was bogged down in mythology and superstition. My well-meaning parents had reared me to be a believer in something that is not tenable. I lived the first several years of my life concerned that there is an eternal destiny for all of mankind, namely heaven, a good place, and hell, a very, very bad place. I spent the first several years of my life concerned and worried for friends and family and their eternal condition. Furthermore, like you, I struggled with my beliefs -- wondering, doubting, unsure and constantly in need of reassurance.
Thankfully, I grew up and came to understand that Santa Clause is not real; the Easter Bunny is not real; the Boogey Man is not real; heaven is not real; hell is not real; God is not real. No more sleepless nights worrying about Johnny; praying for Johnny; "Oh God! Please help Johnny to see the error of his ways! Please save Johnny before it is too late!"
Ah, peace at last! Atheism offers a peace that theism never can. No more struggling with having to "prove" my position. No more throwing away money to a charlatan who claims to have all the answers. No more of this, this silly "apologetics!"
Ah, the peace and serenity of unbelief!
So when do you plan on giving up your myths and superstitions? |
| Loading... | |
| johnBee |
| Posted 05/15/12 at 06:00 AM | Reply with quote #8 |
|
Quote: Originally Posted by Route_70 I see. So being a Christian doesn't help. That's what I mean. The only way to have true peace is not to be a Christian.
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort" - 2 COR. 1:3.
The Bible assures us that God will restore mankind from the pains of sin brought about by Adam and Eve. SEE: Revelation 21:3 "And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God.He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”
God’s promise to rid the world of pain suffering and death is indeed a comforting thought.
Can you we say the same for atheism?
|
| Loading... | |
| Route_70 |
| Posted 05/15/12 at 08:57 AM | Reply with quote #9 |
|
Quote: Originally Posted by johnBee
God’s promise to rid the world of pain suffering and death is indeed a comforting thought.
A promise ostensibly given some 2000 years ago, and as of yet unfulfilled. Since the thought is so comforting, perhaps that is why the reality is not. Why does God yet withhold his promise? If he is so loving and kind, why does he allow so many innocent people around the world to suffer?
Your very statement reveals the ultimate problem with religion and belief in God. You are so gullible, so naive, so easily swayed by "words." You have been taken advantage of, my friend.
How comforting is the thought of eternal torment? How comforted are you with the concept that countless billions of people are now burning in hell? How comforting is the thought of innocent children languishing in eternal flames? Quote: Can you we say the same for atheism?
That's my point. Atheism, or lack of belief, makes no such false promises. Besides, being indoctrinated like you are you make atheism out to be a religion, which it is not. Atheism is the lack of religion. That is what the prefix "a" means. |
| Loading... | |
| Route_70 |
| Posted 05/15/12 at 09:00 AM | Reply with quote #10 |
|
Quote: Originally Posted by TheProblemOfAtheismSo when do you plan on giving up your myths and superstitions?
I do not believe in Santa Clause or the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy or the Boogey Man or litte green men on Mars. I do not believe that aliens from other planets arwe visiting us in UFO's. I do not believe in "Big Foot." I do not believe that the world is going to end on December 21, 2012.
I do not believe in the existence of a supreme being.
So, which myths and superstitions would that be? |
| Loading... | |
| johnBee |
| Posted 05/15/12 at 10:02 AM | Reply with quote #11 |
|
Quote: Originally Posted by Route_70 A promise ostensibly given some 2000 years ago, and as of yet unfulfilled. Since the thought is so comforting, perhaps that is why the reality is not. Why does God yet withhold his promise? If he is so loving and kind, why does he allow so many innocent people around the world to suffer? Actually I'd say the prophecies offered by Christ are indeed coming to pass. Which in turn serves as evidence that the promise of the restoration is still within our grasp. That being said, I'm not sure the universal issues(moral ones), raised between humans and God are entirely settled. ie. there are still many people alive today believing that humans will inevitably solve world problems(in time). However... it is only God's righteous justice which makes way for the inescapable conclusion that Satan’s influence on this world leads to death and suffering. And more importantly... that those studying the evidence will gain the opportunity to demonstrate their willingness to choose right from wrong under God and more importantly.. gain the prospect of living forever as a result.
Quote: Your very statement reveals the ultimate problem with religion and belief in God. You are so gullible, so naive, so easily swayed by "words." You have been taken advantage of, my friend. If I had to weigh this statement, I'd say that it is entirely dependent on self assured assumptions. ie. How does one know where another person has been? or whether or not they are gullible? or easily swayed by words? Though I would ask(rightfully) who is it then, who is being mislead? Is it the person believing to know such things, or the person claiming to know only what he has come to know? Having said that, the twist in your claim is is where you've gone from a generalized statement, to a subjective opinion based on personal choice. ie. the claim of peace and serenity is now challenged with the onset of a "real" potential for peace and serenity which remains exclusive only to those believing in God(see). Whereas the only response to this becomes that these ones are gullible and easily swayed. Though it is obvious that the only choice with even a prospect of true peace could only come from the maker or Creator of this world rather than with men. Quote: How comforting is the thought of eternal torment? How comforted are you with the concept that countless billions of people are now burning in hell? How comforting is the thought of innocent children languishing in eternal flames? Actually, I've never found the claim of people burning in hell for eternity to be supported by the bible. Granted... I know this stands in contradiction with most mainstream religions, however... I can assure you that the concept of a literal eternal hellfire is not supported by the bible. What I have found however(in the bible) is that all who choose to separate themselves from God without the possibility of return(point of no return) will face what is called the second death(eternal hell). Meaning, that these ones will not see a resurrection, but will face eternal destruction along with Satan and his demons instead. iow. no longer existing. And so in this way, rather than ending-up with an image of a cruel and dysfunctional God, the bible depicts a God who is not only fair and balanced, but how goes far out of his way to see that every person on earth is given the opportunity to choose their position. - without anyone falling through the cracks. Quote: That's my point. Atheism, or lack of belief, makes no such false promises. Besides, being indoctrinated like you are you make atheism out to be a religion, which it is not. Atheism is the lack of religion. That is what the prefix "a" means. Such a premise is based entirely on the notion that God did not keep His promise. However... it is quite obvious that your conclusion is based on the assumption that God's promise would have had to materialize at a time of our choosing. But is this how the bible shows God delivering on His promises? Think; the great flood, the deliverance of Egypt, the fulfillment of the promised seed etc. All of which demonstrate that God's time is not our time, but the time in which is most beneficial for everyone. Which incidentally is a good thing, because if God were a mere product of men, then He would most certainly have acted according to our desires rather than His own. - something to think about. |
| Loading... | |
| Route_70 |
| Posted 05/15/12 at 11:43 AM | Reply with quote #12 |
|
Quote: Originally Posted by johnBee every person on earth is given the opportunity to choose
Baloney. Of course. It is necessary to say this, otherwise you have the fact that God is consigning to hell even those who have never heard the gospel.
Your entire post is the same sort of rhetoric I once used as a believer -- just the parroted words of the gullible and naive. |
| Loading... | |
| innerbling |
| Posted 05/15/12 at 12:21 PM | Reply with quote #13 |
|
Quote: Ah, peace at last! Atheism offers a peace that theism never can. No more struggling with having to "prove" my position. No more throwing away money to a charlatan who claims to have all the answers. No more of this, this silly "apologetics!" Yes the peace of nihilism, total surrender of all dogmatism in favor of arbitrariness.
|
| Loading... | |
| Route_70 |
| Posted 05/15/12 at 01:25 PM | Reply with quote #14 |
|
Quote: Originally Posted by innerblingQuote: Ah, peace at last! Atheism offers a peace that theism never can. No more struggling with having to "prove" my position. No more throwing away money to a charlatan who claims to have all the answers. No more of this, this silly "apologetics!" Yes the peace of nihilism, total surrender of all dogmatism in favor of arbitrariness.
Why is it that apologists find it necessary to put words into the mouths of atheists?
Nevertheless, your post infers that dogmatism is preferable to arbitrariness. Really? You'd rather be fooled into believing a falsehood than to say "I don't know?" Being fooled is preferable to being ignorant?
You be the fool. I prefer to remain ignorant. |
| Loading... | |
| Lawlessone777 |
| Posted 05/15/12 at 01:35 PM | Reply with quote #15 |
|
| I'm glad atheism has made you happy. If Neitzche's abyss is something you take comfort in, then all the power to you. I tend to view it more as an unspeakable Lovecraftian horror, but you know whatever turns your crank. |
| Loading... | |