First before, I start on an extensive Refutation of mr alloneword, I just have one question.
That is simply, Why do you care? What makes you care SO… Much, that you literally spend half your days dealing with I, rather then living a good life. Because if I was an atheist, I would be out enjoying every last moment, because this is the only life we have, and I most certainly would not spend hours upon hours playing with Christians who I don’t even believe in? I just don’t get you.
Alrite, now onto this lovely garbage, that I feel needs some attention.
In 2 Kings 4:42-44 and the feeding of the Five thousand.
Key differences that alloneword conveniently leaves out:
1.) In Kings there is a Famine taking place in Gilgal, in the Gospels, The people want to stay and here his teaching, but are getting hungry, and Jesus has compassion on them.
2.) In Kings there is 100 men, in the Gospels theres 5,000
3.) In Kings there are 20 loves of Barley Bread, In the Gospels there is 5 loaves and 2 fish.
4.) In Kings someone randomly brings Elisha 20 loaves of bread for no particular reason, and Elisha tells them to give it to the people to eat, In the Gospels Jesus tells the disciples to give the people something to eat, so they find one young boy to draw food from.
5.) In Kings the the lord tells the people to simply eat, and some may be left over, In the Gospels, Jesus looks up to heaven and blesses the food, and suddenly there’s 12 basketfulls.
6.) In Kings the 20 loaves could easily have fed 100 men, in the Gospels, there had to have been a divine miracle to feed 5,000.
7.) If this had been a rewrite, then why would Matthew report that there were 7 loaves, and possibly a few fish, whereas Mark reports 5 and 2? Wouldn’t Matthew simply follow the plan? Maybe Matthew had an eyewitness account that differed, or maybe he could not remember exactly when he wrote his gospel?
8.) Finally this is highly improbable, because ALL 4 gospels report this event. We have 4 independent sources claiming this happened. Mark’s gospel was around when people at this event were still around, if it had been made up, someone would have made a fit about it. Especially since its so detailed with were Jesus was at, and was going.
Next he says:
In 2 Kings 4:27-37 a distraught parent of an only child comes to Elisha just as in Mark 5:22-24 (which continues in verses 35-43) a distraught parent of
1.) In Kings the young son dies in the woman’s arms, in the Gospel’s the child is in critical condition, while Jarius is hunting Jesus down.
2.) In Kings the mother goes to plead with Elisha, about a girl already dead, while in Mark, Jarius the father goes to plead with Jesus about a girl who is still alive.
3.) In Kings it’s a son, while in Mark it’s a daughter.
4.) In Kings it’s the mother going to Elisha, who is a close friend, while in Mark, it’s the father, who doesn’t even no Jesus.
5.) In Kings Elisha rides back on a donkey, in Mark, Jesus walks to Jarius’s home with hundreds following him.
6.) In Mark, On the way to Jarius home a woman is healed by touching Jesus cloke, within the context of the passage regarding the healing of Jarius daughter, nothing like this at all is found in Kings.
7.) In Kings Elisha send his servant to go lay his staff on the boy’s head, and rides there behind on a donkey.
8.) In Kings Elisha does not doubt that the young son is dead, while in Mark Jesus tells Jarius and the followers that the girl is only sleeping.
9.) In Kings Elisha puts everyone out of the room just him and the boy, while in Mark, Jesus bring with him Jarius, the girls mother, and all the disciples who were with him.
10.) In Kings Elisha lays on the boy, face to face, hand to hand, foot to foot, and spreads eagle on him, until the boy’s body grows warm, Elisha does this 2 times while walking around the room. Finally the boy sneezes. Whereas in Mark, Jesus walks in with his crew, and yells at the girl, “Talitha koum”! which means little girl, I say get up! Immiediatley the girl stands up. Completley different then in Elisha’s case.
11.) In Kings Elisha propheies that this same woman will have the son she does, while in Mark there is no relation to Jarius and Jesus whatsoever.
12.) Mark is our earliest gospel, and none of the other gospels report this story, I guess they weren’t on the bandwagon for making it up? Or maybe they just reported other events since this one already had been.
Next up : Jonah Vs Jesus.
1.) In Jonah, Jonah is running away from God, while in the Gospels, Jesus is simply on a boatride.
2.) In Jonah, the Lord sends the storm, In the Gospels Jesus calms the storm.
3.) In Jonah the men throw the cargo overboard, trying to lighten the ship.
4.) In Jonah the Men cast lots to see who is responsible for the storm, in the Gospels, simply nothing like this happens at all.
5.) In Jonah the men blame Jonah for the storm, in the Gospels, they ask Jesus for help.
6.) In Jonah, they throw Jonah into the sea hoping to calm the storm. In the Gospels, Jesus arises and simpy rebukes the waves.
7.) In Jonah the storm dies down gradually, in the Gospels the wind and waves immiediatley die down.
8.) Jesus speaks of Jonah in Matthew 12:38 on., Why would Jesus refer to a fictional event?
Next up : Luke 7 Vs 1 Kings 17
1.) 1st off the phrase town gate is probably mentioned about a thousand times in the Bible, this is not at all signifigant. Whenever one would approach a city or town, they reffered to the entrance as the town gate.
2.) In Kings the boy simply dies in the house that Elijah is staying in. While in Luke Jesus comes upon a town entrance, and sees a casket being delivered to be buried, with a very grieving mother following. It says the Lord’s heart went out to her.
3.) In Kings the death is blamed on Elijah, while in Luke the death is blamed on no one.
4.) In Kings again we see a relationship between Elijah, and the mother, while in Luke, Jesus does not even know the woman.
5.) The healing does not take place at the town gate in Kings, like alloneword suggests. In Kings the healing takes place in a house, while in Luke it takes place outside the city.
6.) In Kings Elijah lays on the boy and heals him, while in Luke, Jesus uses his usual approach, and speaks to the boy to get up.
7.) In Kings the healing takes place in private, while in Luke, it is in Public.
8.) Widow’s were not rare as alloneword also suggests, men in these days went off to wars constantly and died. Many many woman became widows with children to raise.
Next up: 1 Kings 17 Vs John 4.
1.) Finding women at a well, wow, imagine that. Alloneword acts again like this is amazing. People did not have running water, they had to continually go to get it at wells. I imagine if you sat at one in those days you would probably meet 10-20 widows in under a day’s time. Not to mention the fact that Elijah did not even meet anyone at a well.
2.) In Kings the brook that Elijah had been drinking from dried up because no rain was in the land, so the Lord commands Elijah to goto Zarepath, because a widow will give you shelter. While in John, Jesus is just passing threw the town on a journey, and is tired. His disciples go into town to buy food, so he sits and rests at the well. The implications are that Jesus did drink water, before meeting the samaritian woman. So Jesus was not really thirsty.
3.) In Kings Elijah approaches the town and sees a woman gathering sticks, (Not at a well), and asks if he can have some food and water (not just water, as in Jesus case). But the woman responds that she has no food. So then Elijah tells her to bake a cake for him, and he promises that god will supply the food.
4.) In Kings Elijah is actually thirsty, and hungry, in John, Jesus is neither thirsty, nor hungry.
5.) In Kings Elijah meets the woman approaching the town, while Jesus meets the Samaritan woman after he has sat at the well for a while.
6.) In Kings Elijah is offering to help the woman’s physical needs, while in John Jesus is trying to help the woman’s spiritual and eternal needs.
7.) In Kings the woman does not argue with Elijah, but in John the woman argues extensively with Jesus about him being a Jew, and the woman being a Samaritan.
8.) In Kings the woman is simply a widow, that’s all we know. In John the woman has had 5 husbands, and now is living with one who is not her husband.
9.) In Kings the woman is not living with any man at all.
10.) It’s not hard to understand that both women acknowledge that Jesus and Elijah are acting within a divine state, as Elijah raises a boy back to life, and Jesus tells the woman of her past, and present, what else would be said? Of course this would be obvious to the women.
11.) The Lord answers Elijah’s needs as well as the woman’s needs, while Jesus simply answers the woman’s needs.
12.) Finally, this is just simply not the same story at all. Just because Jesus meets a widow, and Elijah meets a widow, implies nothing. Because that’s really the only major similarities within this story. Which is not at all significant.
Then alloneword moves onto Peter’s vision compared to Ezekial 4, which is simply not even close to the same story, I’ll let you all do the reading there.
So , there it is. While there may indeed be some similarities, there is still some major differences. There is just no proof for his claims whatsoever, and I reject the idea from Harvey that there’s just a bunch of symbolic work in the Gospels.
Keep it up alloneword, you doing great on question dodging and Fact distortion!
Wes
