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djlionheart
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Posted 02/08/12 at 10:08 AM
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#1
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Sometimes in our world today I've run into troubling situations. A brief history: being bullied for two years in the 8th grade, falsely accused of rape (no trial, it didn't go that far) and a myriad of other things that form my identity. WHY?! Why does God still love me? I've read Dr. Craig's book "On Guard" but would like some input from other believers.
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emailestthoume
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Posted 02/08/12 at 12:22 PM
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#2
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Tho book of Job is a good example where bad things happen and it was not because God was mad at Job. It says that Job was a perfectly righteous man, yet the most horrible things happened to Him. I think one reason difficult things happen is that it builds character. This world is not our home, and it is much easier to not treat is as such when we experience difficulty. As Jesus said, "the man who loves his life will lose it, while the man who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life." Now, I don't know if that is the specific reason why you experienced this suffering or not, but it is one possibility.
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djlionheart
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Posted 02/10/12 at 10:56 AM
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#3
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True enough. You seem to be very intelligent, and it seems there's not enough of us to counter atheists like wonderer. Sheesh, all they do is attack. They never have actual defenses for their dogma.
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wonderer
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Posted 02/10/12 at 02:58 PM
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#4
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Quote: Originally Posted by djlionheart
...it seems there's not enough of us to counter atheists like wonderer.
Why thank you. I'm flattered.
Quote: Sheesh, all they do is attack. They never have actual defenses for their dogma.
The thing is, the truth doesn't need to be defended. The truth just is what it is. It would be to your benefit to develop an appreciation for your beliefs being attacked, because having one's beliefs attacked can help one see where one's beliefs don't correspond to the truth. Of course you would have to admit to yourself that there are areas where your beliefs don't correspond to the truth, to have such an appreciation.
I was once a Christian myself and thought atheism ludicrous. However, I was able to recognize my capacity for being wrong. How about you? Do you think you recognize your capacity for being wrong?
Now as to dogma... Please point out what you think is my dogma. Perhaps you see something as dogmatic, when in fact what you see as dogmatic has a huge amount of evidentiary support.
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billclute
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Posted 02/10/12 at 05:02 PM
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#5
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Wonderer-
Quote: I was able to recognize my capacity for being wrong.
I noticed your capacity for being wrong too!! 
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wonderer
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Posted 02/10/12 at 05:17 PM
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#6
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Quote: Originally Posted by billcluteWonderer-
Quote: I was able to recognize my capacity for being wrong.
I noticed your capacity for being wrong too!!
That's good. At least that is one thing we don't need to argue about.
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djlionheart
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Posted 02/10/12 at 09:24 PM
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#7
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Yes, but wonderer, why did you become an atheist? I can't see it as anything but that maybe you never truly were a Christian. If you were, you would feel the certainty for what you believed and know that you had placed your faith in something real and very much alive. And I say that because when we Christians make a point, all you atheists do is attack. You are never able to give any other evidence than science, which is a rather poor substitute for philosophy in this field. However, even though i dislike it, i can't minimize its importance.
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gregwilson
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Posted 02/10/12 at 10:11 PM
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#8
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Quote:
The truth doesn't need to be defended
This may be the most depressing thing I've read. You can't actually believe this.
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djlionheart
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Posted 02/12/12 at 02:27 PM
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#9
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But wonderer, what is "the truth" then? According to you it is something that we are searching for but somehow, after 2000ish years, still have not found. I find it sad that you dropped from Christianity, but that more than anything proves to me you never believed in it. Most likely you "joined" hoping to get a wave of spirituality that would help you succeed in life. Sorry for the bashing, but that's NOT what Christianity is about. By the way, when i said that there's not enough of us to counter your arguments, i meant it as not a compliment, but as a simple statement of fact. Sometimes arguing is useless, and in this case, this is my final post, at least on this argument.
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Blake1960
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Posted 02/15/12 at 05:04 AM
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#10
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Quote: Originally Posted by djlionheart
Yes, but wonderer, why did you become an atheist? I can't see it as anything but that maybe you never truly were a Christian. If you were, you would feel the certainty for what you believed and know that you had placed your faith in something real and very much alive. And I say that because when we Christians make a point, all you atheists do is attack. You are never able to give any other evidence than science, which is a rather poor substitute for philosophy in this field. However, even though i dislike it, i can't minimize its importance.
Scientism of the gaps.
The nonsensical notion that nothing can be known outside of science.
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Blake1960
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Posted 02/15/12 at 05:40 AM
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#11
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DJ,
Please do not allow what happens to you to define you, or as you say "form (your) identity." Have you been able to forgive the bully?
Why does G-d love you? Why does a parent love his/her children? In who's image were you created? What is your potential?
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SceptiKarl
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Posted 02/24/12 at 04:22 PM
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#12
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Why can't the Christians here accept that wonderer has rejected Christianity, having been a Christian? S/He is accused of having never really been a Christian. In my case, that would be true because I've never had any religious belief. But wonderer has told you s/he left the fold. You might not like it, but it does happen! My father was a renegade Catholic from age 17. Luckily for me, I never had to join that exclusive Christian Club, whose members would scorn non-members and take much glee in the punishment their God would administer to the ungodly in the afterlife. Even meek and mild, turn the other cheek, Jesus, threatens people like me with the lake of fire! Some bloody loving God He is!
Cheers SK
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Blake1960
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Posted 02/24/12 at 04:46 PM
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#13
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Quote: Originally Posted by SceptiKarlLuckily for me, I never had to join that exclusive Christian Club, whose members would scorn non-members and take much glee in the punishment their God would administer to the ungodly in the afterlife. Even meek and mild, turn the other cheek, Jesus, threatens people like me with the lake of fire! Some bloody loving God He is! Cheers SK
Those are some popular misconceptions by G-d haters and angry atheists.
Christianity teaches that being gleeful about anyone's misfortune is absolutely wrong. Recall "love your enemies"? :\
The accurate characterization of scripture is more like:
Even ... J-sus, warns people like me about the lake of fire!
Such fire references are figurative language used to communicate the anguish and torment of an eternity separated from G-d.
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SceptiKarl
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Posted 02/24/12 at 06:54 PM
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#14
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Blake1960:
Quote:
Such fire references are figurative language used to communicate the anguish and torment of an eternity separated from G-d.
What kind of "warning" did the unborn babies and completely innocent children get about Noah's flood? None at all! No doubt they would love to have lived but instead found themselves being drowned. Probably Christians can justify this using "figurative language"? You say Christians aren't gleeful about the thought of non-believers perishing. Maybe you should read what Ann Coulter wrote about Richard Dawkins. In her book "Godless," Ann Coulter writes "I defy any of my coreligionists to tell me they do not laugh at the idea of Dawkins burning in hell."
Definitely a club I don't want to join!
Cheers SK
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Callisto
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Posted 02/25/12 at 09:24 PM
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#15
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Sometimes I feel doubtful, but more often than not I am pretty confident. I used to doubt a lot more as a teenager when I had zero sense of direction and was getting hit from all angles by others. But the more I study theology, philosophy, science, and Scripture, and the more I think about these things, I find that I am quite confident in my faith.
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