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Archsage
Reply with quote  #31 
I always thought 'soul' to be a kind of consciousness. Like, when you are in a dream, the 'you' is your soul lost within the confines of your mind. Which is why your soul can be in a different body or form in a dream, but it is still you.

It isn't just your body that will burn in Hell, but your soul as well -- God will not just destroy the body but your very essence, your consciousness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 10:28
28"Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."


Composer
Reply with quote  #32 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archsage
And God did not 'create' you.

Oops! shame on you again Archsage -
 
God created humankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them, male and female he created them.  (Gen. 1:27) NET Story book 
 
So God  created  man in his [own] image, in the image of God  created  he him; male and female  created  he them. (Gen. 1:27) KJV Story book
 
And God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. (Gen. 1:27) ASV Story book
 
And God created Man in his image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. (Gen. 1:27) DBY Story book
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archsage
It's funny, only non-Christians (and those who grew up in a Christian home but never went to the Church, or read a Bible or prayed) would ever say something as foolish as that.

Your proven foolishness and ineptitude is again manifest. At least you show consistency at that!
 
Better luck next time!


Composer
Reply with quote  #33 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archsage
Yes, that is called denying yourself -- saying no to what you want, what you think, what you feel.

Oh goody!, let's make a list of all the things YOU want, think and feel and then you can say NO to them?
 
I'll help e.g. -
 
Do you want a house of your own to live in?
Do you want a wifey for sex and company?
Do you want money in the bank?
Do you want a successful job and career?
Do you want a car?
Do you want health and well being?
Do you want to eat the foods you like?
Do you want to go on holidays in far-away places?
Do you want to go to this imagined heaven you were brain-washed to believe?
Do you want to legitimately understand your bible, Oops! you did say no to that one as we all noticed from your onset. LOL!


Archsage
Reply with quote  #34 
Composer, I'm going to be explicit and say that I'm ignoring you because you either: 1) didn't really read my post, 2) are genuinely stupid, or 3) are stubborn and prideful.

It's most likely 3. So I'll let you rot in your own self-aggrandizement. As long as you know that I told you it's wrong, and will only lead to ruin, and that there is a way to be saved (that you deny yourself, pick up your cross, and follow Him [Christ]).

jmischley
Reply with quote  #35 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archsage
I always thought 'soul' to be a kind of consciousness. Like, when you are in a dream, the 'you' is your soul lost within the confines of your mind. Which is why your soul can be in a different body or form in a dream, but it is still you.

It isn't just your body that will burn in Hell, but your soul as well -- God will not just destroy the body but your very essence, your consciousness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 10:28
28"Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."



I agree with what you said, and I think we both then agree that humans are made up of two fundamental parts - the biological body and the immaterial soul.  Now, it's obvious that the biological body is created through the parents (not by God directly).  What I'm wondering about, is, is the immaterial soul also somehow created through this biological process?  It seems to me like it wouldn't be, how can something material and biological produce something immaterial and spiritual?  The idea I was thinking of is that God must create the spiritual soul and endow the biological body with it, perhaps at conception?  This is the way in which I disagreed that God has stopped creating.

Archsage
Reply with quote  #36 
I'm not sure what to say, jmischley, I don't really think to much on the subject.

As far as I'm concerned, God 'makes' the soul of men in the same way we mean that God 'makes' the body of men. god takes credit for 'crafting' the flesh in the womb, so it would be sensical to believe that God takes credit for 'crafting' ones soul in the womb.

However, as I have said before, It isn't because of the Creative Will of God that we come into being in the womb, it's just an ongoing natural process. Therefore we only exist because of the Will of Men -- as opposed to Adam and Eve who were explicitly created by the Will of God. We were merely procreated, just repercussions of Adam. That is why we are born in sin, but one such as Christ was not.

RobertH
Reply with quote  #37 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmischley

I agree with what you said, and I think we both then agree that humans are made up of two fundamental parts - the biological body and the immaterial soul.  Now, it's obvious that the biological body is created through the parents (not by God directly).  What I'm wondering about, is, is the immaterial soul also somehow created through this biological process?  It seems to me like it wouldn't be, how can something material and biological produce something immaterial and spiritual?  The idea I was thinking of is that God must create the spiritual soul and endow the biological body with it, perhaps at conception?  This is the way in which I disagreed that God has stopped creating.



This is something I have thought about and it is really interesting. We know that each unsaved person has a dead spirit and needs regeneration by the Spirit. So I guess one appropriate question would be does God create dead spirits or are spirits dead because we are the offspring of two people with dead spirits?
Composer
Reply with quote  #38 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archsage
The Christ was 'of' God, born out of the will of God Himself. 

And according to the Story book also born by the forced will ' of ' its mortal Mother Mary! -

Story book god / (alleged trinitarian holy spirit person) technically raped / committed adultery with another man's wife & / Mary agreed to committing adultery with the alleged trinitarian holy spirit person / other source than her betrothed husband Joseph!
 
Joseph and Mary found it necessary to repeatedly lie to their neighbours and the Romans at the Census as to whom was the literal Father of their first child, to prevent her child being labelled a bastard, prevent her stoning and later prevent their arrest and imprisonment and death of the babe at the Census (Because of Herod's orders). Your god made them liars for its dishonest and hypocrytical cause! (i.e. permitting all other babes in the vicinity under 2 to be slaughtered, whilst protecting only its alleged trinitarian / story book self in disguise as a babe)

Your god is a proven disgrace and the story book jesus conceived in Sin! (Lev. 20:10) KJV Story book



Composer
Reply with quote  #39 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archsage
  I'm not sure what to say, jmischley, I don't really think to much on the subject.

Yes I and possibly some others noticed that about all your subjects so let's deal with your latest blunders-
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archsage
  We were merely procreated, just repercussions of Adam. That is why we are born in sin, . . . . . (Composer's Bold)
 

Story book proves you WRONG again!


Ezekiel 18:20 RSV
"THE SON SHALL NOT SUFFER FOR THE INIQUITY OF THE FATHER. NOR THE FATHER SUFFER FOR THE INIQUITY OF THE SON; the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself."
Ezekiel 18:20 also "pulls the rug out from under" Christianity's main premise, that all generations of mankind are burdened with sin and death stemming from Adam's act of disobedience. Only Christ's redeeming shed blood can end this never-ending cycle of sin and death. Quite clearly Ezekiel refutes this notion. "The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father." (Online Source: http://www.bibleorigins.net/MoabiteBloodMessiah.html)  

Better luck next time!


emailestthoume
Reply with quote  #40 
I realize this post has been dead for a while, and I am coming in without reading every single thing posted in this thread, but I have two responses I would like to make to your last comment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Composer
Ezekiel 18:20 also "pulls the rug out from under" Christianity's main premise, that all generations of mankind are burdened with sin and death stemming from Adam's act of disobedience.


First, I do not think the traditional belief in original sin is necessary to Christianity. It has been hotly debated throughout Christian history with many Christians defending the belief that there is no original sin (often Christians who are not Calvinist or Catholic reject original sin).

Secondly, I think you are taking Ezekiel 18:20 out of context. The context seems to forcefully indicate that the son who does not suffer for the sin of his father is one who repents from his father's sin by leading a good life. I think if you look at the preceding verses more carefully you can see this.

“Yet you ask, ‘Why does the son not share the guilt of his father?’ Since the son has done what is just and right and has been careful to keep all my decrees, he will surely live. 20The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him. (Ezk. 18:19-20, NIV)

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