Following Orders - Crocodilemma
I was looking forward to discussing a particular topic with someone in another thread but since he and I are having a ‘’thingy’’
it doesn’t seem likely. A few of the atheist folk from Atheist Forum of Aust. (from whence I was banned) seem to think that a
certain theological dilemma is an effective ‘’gotcha’’ for counter-apologists to use on biblical theists.
If God told you to kill me, how would you react?
It’s a fail IMHO (God needs to exist to do stuff, our free-will response to God is optional, the State mandates killing often,
why would God ask me to kill someone just to provide atheist spectators with another reason to hate Him,
what if atheist demigod Joe Stalin asked me to kill someone religious, what’s so bad about killing another primate
for a sufficiently ‘’Darwinian’’ reason…and so forth and so on.)
But it does offer the biblical theist a bit of chewing gum for the mind.
Crocodilemma god : [Booming voice heard by Lion IRC] Hear and obey me.
Lion IRC : What was that?
Crocodilemma god : I am Crocodilemma god
Lion IRC : Who are you?
Crocodilemma god : I am Crocod…WAIT! Are you deaf?
Lion IRC : No, but haven’t you ever seen that TV show - Smile you’re on candid camera.
Crocodilemma god : Yes, I am all knowing and all powerful.
Lion IRC : Prove it.
Crocodilemma god : Do not put me to the proof.
Lion IRC : I’m not going to obey you unless you prove you really are Crocodilemma god.
Crocodilemma god : Wait Wut? You want me to obey YOU
Lion IRC : Yep. Gimme a sign.
Crocodilemma god : Or else what?
Lion IRC : Or else I’m not going to obey you.
Crocodilemma god : Are you kidding me? So if I FIRST jump
through your hoops then you will jump through mine.
Lion IRC : Maybe.
Crocodilemma god : Maybe?
Lion IRC : Well, it would depend on what you asked.
Crocodilemma god : What would you do if I told you to…? àinsert biblical anecdote hereß
Would you do it?
Lion IRC : You mean I still have a choice? Free will?
Crocodilemma god : Yes but I am Crocodilemma god. Don't you want to obey me?
Lion IRC : But I still don’t know you are who you say you are.
Crocodilemma god : I am that I am
Lion IRC : That's not convincing enough especially for atheists.
I respect your reptilian brain and all but…...
Crocodilemma god : Well what if you were a soldier and I was your commanding officer?
Would you refuse to obey a direct order?
Lion IRC : Maybe. Do I still have free will?
Crocodilemma god : Yes. But I'm giving you an order that will ultimately put an end to WW2,
help capture Usama bin Laden, reverse global warming and fix the GFC.
Lion IRC : Well that is pretty persuasive
Crocodilemma god : So you would kill for a higher cause – humanism – survival of the species?
Nobody is going to accuse you of being immoral for that.
Lion IRC : Maybe, but what's in it for me?
Crocodilemma god : King and country, patriotism, you’re a soldier, you’re not going AWOL
and selfish are you?
Lion IRC : Well…..
Crocodilemma god : Hmm. I see you need a different type of motivation.
Suppose I was mamon. Would you obey me if I gave you a million dollars?
Lion IRC : Tempting.
Crocodilemma god : OK how about I throw in a yacht, a Porsche, a new identity and luxury
mansion in some non-extradition treaty country? Surely heaps of people are willing to
worship and obey mamon even if it involves a bit of ..."collateral damage" along the way.
Lion IRC : Well I suppose that's true.
Crocodilemma god : So you would kill for greed? You wouldn’t be the first human to ever obey
Lion IRC : Maybe. Is there an afterlife punishment?
Crocodilemma god : Hmm. Carrot and Stick. Good idea. OK. What about if obeying me meant
your eternal happiness? Would you THEN do what I asked?
Lion IRC : Do I still get the yacht and the Porche? Oh yeah….and I wanna get the girl too!
Crocodilemma god : Ahhh…for love and lust you might be persuaded.
Lion IRC : Well, you know the songs…I would do anything for love, money cant buy me love,
the power of love, love is the drug, love is like oxygen…
Crocodilemma god : Ok. Would you kill for love? Obeying your evolutionary instinct,
crime of passion, revenge,
Lion IRC : Maybe. Who are we talking about.
Crocodilemma god : Cleopatra, Helen of Troy, The Queen of Sheeba, Tempting right?
Lion IRC : Maybe. They fought a war over Helen of Troy.
Crocodilemma god : Yep. Nothing like a ''bizarre love triangle'' to make you a “slave to love….”
Lion IRC : Yeah, yeah…you made your point.
Crocodilemma god : OK. How about love of your family? Would you kill to protect them?
Nobody is going to accuse you of being immoral for that. Kill or be killed.
Lion IRC : Well, I suppose there are heaps of examples in the animal kingdom.
Crocodilemma god : So? Will you kill for THAT?
Lion IRC : I dunno. All these scenarios are making me wonder about who exactly
I would be actually killing.
Crocodilemma god : Yes, and in all these scenarios you admitted that you WOULD obey
the lords of greed, lust, evolutionary survival of the fittest, animal instinct,
King and Country, patriotism, family honor. Don’t worry about the OTHER guy.
Obey your selfish DNA,
Lion IRC : Is it still my free will choice whether to do it or not?
Crocodilemma god : The clock is ticking pal. I’m getting impatient!
Lion IRC : Whoooo. Look who’s getting angry. Waddya gonna do? Kill me?
Crocodilemma god : Well you were asking for proof of my power.
Lion IRC : ...and were back to carrot and stick again.
Crocodilemma god : Oh wise guy. How about I turn you into a cockroach, dry roast you
and feed you to the lizards if you don’t obey my command?
Lion IRC : I don’t believe you !