| emailestthoume |
| Posted 07/11/12 at 02:47 AM | Reply with quote #1 |
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Ok, so I never officially posted my article here, and I thought it was about time. All substantive commentary will be welcomed.
http://sententias.org/2012/01/04/evolution-the-bible-and-the-3-5-million-dollar-violin/ |
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| idunno |
| Posted 07/11/12 at 02:55 AM | Reply with quote #2 |
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You wrote that??? I remember reading it a while back. Koodos from an agnostic in regards to evolution  |
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| emailestthoume |
| Posted 07/11/12 at 02:59 AM | Reply with quote #3 |
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Thanks  |
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| johnBee |
| Posted 07/11/12 at 03:59 AM | Reply with quote #4 |
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Great piece.
I really enjoyed reading it. - thx |
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| TheProblemOfAtheism |
| Posted 07/11/12 at 04:25 AM | Reply with quote #5 |
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Great piece.
I might have mistaken you for Max Andrews himself. Sorry! |
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| emailestthoume |
| Posted 07/11/12 at 09:04 AM | Reply with quote #6 |
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Thanks for the nice comments  If any atheists have objections I would be happy to hear them as well. |
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| jbiemans |
| Posted 07/11/12 at 09:49 AM | Reply with quote #7 |
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I probably would not be questioning this except that you asked.... =)
That was a well written article and an interesting experiment, but I drew different conclusions then you did from it. (the Josh bell one) But I am unsure how you related that back to you in your biology class ?
You said that you recognized that the bible contradicted what you were taught about evolution, therefore the Bible was wrong. Then you showed the analogy with Josh bell, and then somehow concluded that the Bible was right after all ?
I am sorry but I don't understand. The best that I can think of is that you came to the conclusion that God, rather then directly relieving himself and attracting those who were not sincere, decided to disguise himself using a book that was obviously incorrect in places to weed out the insincere ? |
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| Geneticist |
| Posted 07/11/12 at 10:04 AM | Reply with quote #8 |
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| I too just don't get how this relates to Evolution or what conclusion you are drawing. |
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| Lawlessone777 |
| Posted 07/11/12 at 10:14 AM | Reply with quote #9 |
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Though I can't speak for him, what I gleaned from this is that God doesn't need to spell out the how to showcase his majesty. Imagine of Genesis 1 started out with, "And God said let there be a Higgs field which slowed the movement of elementary particles to create mass within the framework of various states of matter designed to interact with one another creating molecular bonding. After being projected in all directions via the insertion of dark energy, these molecules then formed via gravity into clumps of material which reacted chemically, or energetically with one another to create a set of variable circumstances where amino acids, proteins, and sugars could chemically bond to create a double helix strand of information processing that could be discerned by other molecular pair bonds into replication. These self replicating chemicals gradually through a series of mutations and adaptations grew in complexity until a reasonably intelligent set of primates was deemed important by God and given a soul."
The Bible pretty much just says, "And God created the universe and life." Which is the humble musician playing the most complex music every conceived without needing to spell out the grand accomplishment needed to do so. |
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| peter7 |
| Posted 07/11/12 at 10:19 AM | Reply with quote #10 |
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Quote: Originally Posted by Geneticist
I too just don't get how this relates to Evolution or what conclusion you are drawing.
Its a "god could still have done it" story. |
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| Geneticist |
| Posted 07/11/12 at 10:24 AM | Reply with quote #11 |
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Quote: Originally Posted by Lawlessone777
Though I can't speak for him, what I gleaned from this is that God doesn't need to spell out the how to showcase his majesty. Imagine of Genesis 1 started out with, "And God said let there be a Higgs field which slowed the movement of elementary particles to create mass within the framework of various states of matter designed to interact with one another creating molecular bonding. After being projected in all directions via the insertion of dark energy, these molecules then formed via gravity into clumps of material which reacted chemically, or energetically with one another to create a set of variable circumstances where amino acids, proteins, and sugars could chemically bond to create a double helix strand of information processing that could be discerned by other molecular pair bonds into replication. These self replicating chemicals gradually through a series of mutations and adaptations grew in complexity until a reasonably intelligent set of primates was deemed important by God and given a soul."
The Bible pretty much just says, "And God created the universe and life." Which is the humble musician playing the most complex music every conceived without needing to spell out the grand accomplishment needed to do so.
As wonderful a message as that is, I still don't get what Evolution has to do with this.
If he were to strike Evolution and the Bible from the title and remove his recount of youthful opinions on these matters, the message would be clear. As it is, the message is muddied by these earlier references. |
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| jbiemans |
| Posted 07/11/12 at 12:03 PM | Reply with quote #12 |
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Lawless, if the Bible simply said "And God created the universe and life" and left it at that, then there would be no problem. What changes is when the account goes into detail and the details are wrong. You can then say (and most do) that the accounts are not literal, but theological or metaphorical in nature, .
Its like a parent telling their child "Mommy and Daddy went to the baby store and made you. We picked your eyes, and hair, and everything. Then after a little while the stork delivered you to us". Then when the child questions that, you say "Well 'baby store' is a metaphor for sex, and the parts about picking your features were just in there for the metaphor. What is important is the part where we told you that we made you."
But asside from that, I still don't see how this relates to evolution, unless he (and you) are saying that the account in Genesis is irrelevent, all that is important is that it says "God made everything" |
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| Lawlessone777 |
| Posted 07/11/12 at 12:17 PM | Reply with quote #13 |
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Actually if you read Genesis it really doesn't go into great detail as to how God did it, it merely states he did. God created the heavens and the earth, created light, created land, created vegetation, marine life, animals, and finally humans. With the exception of some poetic imagery this doesn't conflict at all with how evolution describes things happening beyond the different in time (days versus millions of years).
For some reason people get it in their head that in order for God to create the universe we would need to see some sort of gap in order and coherence. Or they believe that if God created animals, humans, or plants we would need to see evidence of those things not existing, and then one day popping into existence, as opposed to growing as all living things do.
Or to be more succinct, I have no problem in visualizing God planting a seed and watching it grow as opposed to snapping his fingers and making things pop into existence. The Bible makes no explicit statement either way, so we really have no reason to be threatened by scientific discovery. Learning how it works doesn't at all disprove that it was designed much the same as me taking an electrical engineering/computer programming course and learning how my iPhone works gradually decreases the likelihood of me acknowledging that someone built it.
With regards to the violin, it's simply a motivation for why God didn't feel the need to spell it out explicitly in his special revelation. Why brag about the complexity of the universe you created when you can simply allow people to study it and find it out for themselves? Much for the same reason why I'm not burning my Bible and adhering to atheism because Jesus refers to the Mustard Seed as the smallest of all seeds, when in reality it's the Lotus, I'm not overtly concerned about the Genesis account making biological scientific predictions. The Bible is not a textbook on botany, biology, physics, or quantum mechanics, it's a textbook on humanity and how you can live the most Christ like life and make it into heaven. |
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| emailestthoume |
| Posted 07/11/12 at 05:11 PM | Reply with quote #14 |
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Quote: Originally Posted by jbiemans
I probably would not be questioning this except that you asked.... =)
That was a well written article and an interesting experiment, but I drew different conclusions then you did from it. (the Josh bell one) But I am unsure how you related that back to you in your biology class ?
You said that you recognized that the bible contradicted what you were taught about evolution, therefore the Bible was wrong. Then you showed the analogy with Josh bell, and then somehow concluded that the Bible was right after all ?
I am sorry but I don't understand. The best that I can think of is that you came to the conclusion that God, rather then directly relieving himself and attracting those who were not sincere, decided to disguise himself using a book that was obviously incorrect in places to weed out the insincere ?
I found a possible reason as to why God's existence could be consistent with a bible that sometimes seems as raggedy as a street musician (I am one, so I can say that&hellip … or life that can seem like this (the problem of evil). My objection to God apparently refuted makes me open to His existence which I have accepted based on personal experience. |
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| jbiemans |
| Posted 07/11/12 at 06:06 PM | Reply with quote #15 |
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I am unsure of the reason still though ? Is the reason:
"God made the bible wrong on purpose to try to disguise himself from those who were not sincere ?"
Are you trying to say that only those that can look past the faults and obvious false things in the Bible are able to see the true message and come to appreciate God, like only those who could look past the street performer could appreciate the real talent of the musician ?
Personally, I am not a huge fan of a lot of classical music and to me a 3.5 million dollar violin does not sound that much better then a 100 dollar one. It's if I like the song or not that is important. If I was walking through a station of some kind though, odds are good that I had something to catch at a deadline so regardless of how good the person was, I would not have to time to stop and listen. Children are not so burdened with the thought of deadlines, so its unsurprising to me that they would want to stop. They would want to stop for anyone that caught their interest. |
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