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Lion_IRC
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Posted 07/20/12
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#151
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When I said it needs to be friendly, it was MY prerequisite upon WLB specifically.
Of course, it doesnt "need" to be that way per se.
But I wish it was.
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worldslaziestbusker
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Posted 07/20/12
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#152
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Quote: Originally Posted by Lion_IRC
When I said it needs to be friendly, it was MY prerequisite upon WLB specifically.
Of course, it doesnt "need" to be that way per se.
But I wish it was.
I wish it was, too, but your behaviour precludes my thinking well enough of you to treat your antics with anything other than disdain.
Are you ever going to answer the question or is this just another round of delaying tactics? Perhaps now you are hoping I will be banned and that you won't receive further calls for your response. Whether or not I am making that request is irrelevent. The question warrants an answer from any theist who would assert their personally revealed deity as worth heeding by others.
If I am banned and you use that as a loophole to excuse yourself from answering, you don't gain anything. You haven't shown yourself to have integrity and courage. Slinking away from this discussion simply because I might not be able to contribute to it any more would not be a good thing for you. That wouldn't constitute a phyrric victory, let alone a trouncing of my position by your allegedly superior divinley inspired ethical position.
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Lion_IRC
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Posted 07/20/12
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#153
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my behaviour?
my antics?
slinking away from the discussion?
Delaying tactics?
Dude, come on! What are you talking about?
I dont want you banned!
This is a great forum and you can be a welcome member here just like all the other non-theists.
But if you want to talk to ME about the so-called crocodilemma counter-apologetic, dont do that whole... parrot/ventriloquist/coward/WLC fanboi accusation thing
and drop the anti-theist, in-your-face rhetoric.
It's out of place here.
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worldslaziestbusker
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Posted 07/20/12
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#154
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Quote: Originally Posted by Lion_IRC
my behaviour?
my antics?
slinking away from the discussion?
Delaying tactics?
Dude, come on! What are you talking about?
I dont want you banned!
This is a great forum and you can be a welcome member here just like all the other non-theists.
But if you want to talk to ME about the so-called crocodilemma counter-apologetic, dont do that whole... parrot/ventriloquist/coward/WLC fanboi accusation thing
and drop the anti-theist, in-your-face rhetoric.
It's out of place here.
Where every adjective and noun I have used in describing you is backed by evidence validating its use, the one label you have chosen to level at me is the anti-theist?
I am not an anti-theist and there is no evidence anywhere online that I am anything other than someone who seeks to defend his own rights against those who would trample them. I don't care what you believe so long as that doesn't affect me. I have even gone in to defend your right to believe as you see fit against genuine anti-theists who would like to see that right diminished.
Choose your words with greater care. Where I can point to evidence to support my claim that you are a disingenuous coward, you cannot show similar evidence that I am an anti-theist, and I can direct you to evidence that shows I am not.
I am an atheist. Nothing else follows from that. Not anti-theism. Not even the desire to defend my rights. That desire arises from my ethical framework in which everyone is afforded the right to believe as they see fit coming into conflict with dominionist attempts to get everyone living according to Christian moral models, models which you are doing a fine job of showing up as wanting.
What I choose to ask of you is not out of place here and the manner in which I asked it was inspired by your choice to act in such an underhanded manner. Stop delaying. If you have something to bring to the table, do so. If you don't admit that you don't. You cannot force me to be nicer to you than you deserve, so persisting in your calls to take this back a to fluffy bunny town are pointless. Your behaviour got us to this point, only your behaviour can retrieve the situation. Behave like someone who deserves respect if respect is what you want.
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Logos
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Posted 07/21/12
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#155
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Just to clarify. My post was not an invitation to discuss interpretation of rules or to start a discussion on when polite conversation is or is not warranted.
Most posters in this community are entirely capable of having civil conversation with people they disagree with, without name calling. Posters who are not capable do not remain in the community.
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ChristianJR4
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Posted 07/22/12
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#156
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Quote: Originally Posted by worldslaziestbusker
Where every adjective and noun I have used in describing you is backed by evidence validating its use, the one label you have chosen to level at me is the anti-theist?
I am not an anti-theist and there is no evidence anywhere online that I am anything other than someone who seeks to defend his own rights against those who would trample them. I don't care what you believe so long as that doesn't affect me. I have even gone in to defend your right to believe as you see fit against genuine anti-theists who would like to see that right diminished.
Choose your words with greater care. Where I can point to evidence to support my claim that you are a disingenuous coward, you cannot show similar evidence that I am an anti-theist, and I can direct you to evidence that shows I am not.
I am an atheist. Nothing else follows from that. Not anti-theism. Not even the desire to defend my rights. That desire arises from my ethical framework in which everyone is afforded the right to believe as they see fit coming into conflict with dominionist attempts to get everyone living according to Christian moral models, models which you are doing a fine job of showing up as wanting.
What I choose to ask of you is not out of place here and the manner in which I asked it was inspired by your choice to act in such an underhanded manner. Stop delaying. If you have something to bring to the table, do so. If you don't admit that you don't. You cannot force me to be nicer to you than you deserve, so persisting in your calls to take this back a to fluffy bunny town are pointless. Your behaviour got us to this point, only your behaviour can retrieve the situation. Behave like someone who deserves respect if respect is what you want.
No offense "worldslaziestbusker", but this whole statement of yours comes across as immature and childish, not to mention the whole patronizing feel of superiority, arrogance and condescension just oozing out of it.
Some advice: Don't come to a forum for intellectual discussion and expect people to take you seriously or be impressed by rhetorical sound bites and insults. They just won't work in your favor.
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worldslaziestbusker
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Posted 07/22/12
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#157
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Quote: Originally Posted by ChristianJR4
No offense "worldslaziestbusker", but this whole statement of yours comes across as immature and childish, not to mention the whole patronizing feel of superiority, arrogance and condescension just oozing out of it.
Some advice: Don't come to a forum for intellectual discussion and expect people to take you seriously or be impressed by rhetorical sound bites and insults. They just won't work in your favor.
You don't get to negate any potential offence simply by telling me not to take any.
Have you read this entire thread? I suspect not, or you might recognise that I did not become condescending until LionIRC began contributing his trite sound bites. I have been part of this forum for many months and my thinking and ethical standards have not varied, but this is the first I've seen of you feeling a need to censure me. Where were you when the discussion with 9191 kicked off?
LionIRC allows people to feel superior to him by slinking about attempting to use sophistry and deflection when he can't simply bluster in an attempt to make his points.
If you feel it sufficiently important that you contribute to this thread, it is also sufficiently important that you read it and gain the context that has brought LionIRC and I to this point.
In the absence of an understanding of that context, your own post is extremely arrogant and patronising.
I did not come here because I thought it would be fun or edifying, but to defend a position I took in a debate to which 9191 invited me, and which I took seriously and put considerable time and effort into because that debate sought to discredit my ethical capacity. My rhetorical capacity is sound, but it was my arguments, and those of my fellow affirmative debaters, which carried the debate in our favour. I don't care if you are not impressed. I only care if you can make a case that discredits my own position.
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Lion_IRC
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Posted 07/24/12
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#158
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Quote: Originally Posted by ChristianJR4Quote: Originally Posted by worldslaziestbusker
Where every adjective and noun I have used in describing you is backed by evidence validating its use, the one label you have chosen to level at me is the anti-theist?
I am not an anti-theist and there is no evidence anywhere online that I am anything other than someone who seeks to defend his own rights against those who would trample them. I don't care what you believe so long as that doesn't affect me. I have even gone in to defend your right to believe as you see fit against genuine anti-theists who would like to see that right diminished.
Choose your words with greater care. Where I can point to evidence to support my claim that you are a disingenuous coward, you cannot show similar evidence that I am an anti-theist, and I can direct you to evidence that shows I am not.
I am an atheist. Nothing else follows from that. Not anti-theism. Not even the desire to defend my rights. That desire arises from my ethical framework in which everyone is afforded the right to believe as they see fit coming into conflict with dominionist attempts to get everyone living according to Christian moral models, models which you are doing a fine job of showing up as wanting.
What I choose to ask of you is not out of place here and the manner in which I asked it was inspired by your choice to act in such an underhanded manner. Stop delaying. If you have something to bring to the table, do so. If you don't admit that you don't. You cannot force me to be nicer to you than you deserve, so persisting in your calls to take this back a to fluffy bunny town are pointless. Your behaviour got us to this point, only your behaviour can retrieve the situation. Behave like someone who deserves respect if respect is what you want.
No offense "worldslaziestbusker", but this whole statement of yours comes across as immature and childish, not to mention the whole patronizing feel of superiority, arrogance and condescension just oozing out of it. Some advice: Don't come to a forum for intellectual discussion and expect people to take you seriously or be impressed by rhetorical sound bites and insults. They just won't work in your favor.
The difficulty I have been having with WLB is all the off-topic, personal stuff that doesnt actually address the ideas being contended but is, instead, stubbornly aimed at the person trying to present their alternative position.
I ''get it'' that he dislikes the idea and wants to discredit it. Thats what the AvT contest of ideas is about. But maligning the integrity and sincerity of people by saying they merely parrot their pastor using...can't think for yourself, cut-n-paste, WLC fanboi type parroted responses is something from which he doesnt resile. And I admit that I too am being stubborn in refusing to take part in dialogue with him unless he relents...even just a little.
In the interests of effective rational discourse I would like to cultivate a little bit of good faith insofar as taking people at their word. Treating people in a condescending manner is visibly different to explaining why the idea those people hold bothers you.
Quote: Originally Posted by worldslaziestbusker
Have you read this entire thread? I suspect not...
I did not become condescending until LionIRC began contributing his trite sound bites.
LionIRC ...slinking about
...your own post is extremely arrogant and patronising.
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worldslaziestbusker
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Posted 07/29/12
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#159
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Quote:
The difficulty I have been having with WLB is all the off-topic, personal stuff that doesnt actually address the ideas being contended but is, instead, stubbornly aimed at the person trying to present their alternative position.
This is rich coming from someone who has not been on topic for two whole months. Deal with the questions asked of you and you won't leave me with time to deal with your disingenuous ways, because you will be acting sincerely and with the intent to actually discuss something.
Quote: I ''get it'' that he dislikes the idea and wants to discredit it. Thats what the AvT contest of ideas is about. But maligning the integrity and sincerity of people by saying they merely parrot their pastor using...can't think for yourself, cut-n-paste, WLC fanboi type parroted responses is something from which he doesnt resile. And I admit that I too am being stubborn in refusing to take part in dialogue with him unless he relents...even just a little.
I have told you several times that I will not be bullied into being nicer to you than I think you deserve. This position has not changed. The option to make me eat my words about your insincerity and intelligence has been available to you from the word go and still you act as though attempting to force me to be friendly is a better option than embarassing me and forcing me to apologise for maligning your integrity. You could make me look extremely foolish and show you really did have something worth reading up your sleeve by publishing that thing. I don't think you have it, so being friendly and still getting nothing substantial from you would leave me pretty much where I am now, only with the nasty aftertaste of having written platitudes that do not map to how I feel about or think of you. It is both easier and more sincere to not give in to your mewling demand that I speak nicely about you if both approaches yield nothing in the way of discourse.
Quote: In the interests of effective rational discourse I would like to cultivate a little bit of good faith insofar as taking people at their word. Treating people in a condescending manner is visibly different to explaining why the idea those people hold bothers you.
You could cultivate good faith by acting in good faith and doing what you say you can and will do without trying to bully out of me an attitude I do not feel.
I do not enjoy interacting with you in this manner, but in terms of productivity, I think your endless obfuscation serves my ends well. It makes you and the Christians who defend you and who subscribe to your morality look ethically shabby.
I have gone to some lengths to explain why your ideas bother me and why your behaviour is annoying. All I get in return is "You're not nice, be more nice because being nice is nice." If I seem condescending it is only because I think I am better than you and I don't bother trying to hide it because I don't respect you enough to think your feelings should be protected in this matter. If you want to change this situation, make me think better of you by acting like a person who warrants respect, not by demanding I make a show of respect I don't have for you. Again, you are attempting to make me act in an insincere manner, and that does you little credit.
Just so other people who join the thread and don't read back beyond the last few posts can stay up to speed, I have asked LionIRC:
If you received a message from your deity, every bit as convincing as any revelation which convinced you of the existence of that deity, instructing you to kill me, how would you act?
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Lion_IRC
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Posted 07/29/12
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#160
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I started a crocodilemma thread for discussion with UNcondescending people who do think ''being nice is nice"
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worldslaziestbusker
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Posted 07/29/12
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#161
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Quote: Originally Posted by Lion_IRC
I started a crocodilemma thread for discussion with UNcondescending people who do think ''being nice is nice"
I don't disagree that being nice is nice.
I just don't think you deserve nice. You have been disingenuous with me, in other words, a liar. That doesn't warrant nice.
Please provide a link to your new thread so that readers of this thread can find it.
I would prefer you answer the question asked of you in the thread in which it was asked, but will follow you there if you leave me no choice.
Just chalk it up as another mechanism by which you attempt to make your morality look better than it actually is - trying to distance yourself from this tangled mess of your obfuscation and hurt fawn mewlings.
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worldslaziestbusker
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Posted 08/01/12
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#162
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LionIRC, in what I am reading as a fairly cowardly attempt to disassociate themselves from the stymieing tactics employed in this thread, has taken the conversation over here http://rfforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/Following-Orders-Crocodilemma-5943389
and is doing a pretty poor job of responding to the Crocodilemma.
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Pacioli
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Posted 08/06/12
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#163
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Quote: Originally Posted by Lion_IRC
*sigh* Any friendly (accomodationalist) atheists who want to debate/discuss the crocodilemma with me according to Reasonable Faith (substantive/eirenic) terms mentioned above please feel free to PM me and we can start a new thread. It's a lame counter-apologetic and you don't see it much these days but I would be happy to bravely answer the charge. ...not a cowardly lion.
Quote: Originally Posted by Lion_IRC
The difficulty I have been having with WLB is all the off-topic, personal stuff that doesnt actually address the ideas being contended but is, instead, stubbornly aimed at the person trying to present their alternative position.
I return briefly to this thread to note that if a word of this by Lion were true then he would have answered me, here for example. Lion has not answered, nor pretended to answer, despite lacking with me the excuses he used with WLB.
The early pages of this thread stand unchallenged by Lion IRC. Lion's entry has been to demonstrate again that he evades questions. I shall now jog along to the other thread to see how he is faring there, leaving it recognised that he has simply went backwards here.
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Logos
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Posted 08/21/12
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#164
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As this thread is similar in topic, participants and behaviour to the above linked thread, I am locking it for the same reasons as I locked the other one.
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