Originally Posted by shyguy
Hello... Paul wrote in Romans 7:24 "...who shall deliver me from the body of this death?"
It seems as though you're quoting Paul...but Paul was not a Gnostic and ROmans is not a Gnostic gospel. Are you referring to another quotation from a Gnostic gospel that I am unaware of?

Originally Posted by shyguy
Hi alloneword...by the way i luv the nickname... I've been following your variuos posts for a while but have never responded. Tonight i responded to this thread and also to your thread about Katrina and Amos 3:6 under the name shoshomago so if you want to check that out, i hope i brought some clarity from a Biblical perspective.

Regarding Paul...he was not a gnostic...none of the authors of the Bible were gnostics...gnostics were viewed as heretics, so Paul wrote against them in Colosians and John wrote against them in I John. That is why gospel of Thomas, and Judas, etc... are so controversial today, because they are gnostic gospels, which are herectical to Christians.

I don't know of any claims of the gnostics to plea for deliverance from their bodies. In fact the gnostics believed that matter is inherently evil and only spirit is pure (they denied that Jesus had a physical body). They also thought, that since the physical is inherently evil, why not "live it up" so to speak, by acting out any sinful desires they wanted since, after all, their actions (in the body) would be evil anyway. A convenient way of getting away with licentuous living

Paul pleas for deliverance not "out of" his physical body but from "...the body of this death". The phrase has its meaning explained in the context. I know these posts seem lengthy, but here are the preceeding verses (please read them over to get the sense of what Paul is saying):

Romans 7
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

So Paul was expressing what every believer (Christian) experiences. The Christian desires to obey God, or, " to perform that which is good", but at the same time, the natural impulses of the body are "...warring against the law of my mind." The sinful flesh wars against that which is right to do. Paul is wracked with the struggle of submitting to God in the face of temptation to do otherwise. It is at this point he cries out: "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?" It is the body which posesses the very influential sin nature. So the deliverance isn't from the physical body (Paul knows that the resurrection will bring that deliverance), it is deliverance from the influence of the sin nature within. PAUL THEN ANSWERS THE QUESTION IN THE NEXT VERSE AND IN ALL OF CHAPTER 8. The answer comes through the indwelling of the Spirit of God. The Spirit of God comes to reside in the believer to assist and empower him/her in the face of temptation to obey God.
In any case, that is the context of the statement made by Paul...hope it's helpful.
Sincerely

Originally Posted by Drm970
My response to your post on Jesus becoming a life-giving spirit is sufficient to explain this quote as well. Your argument rests upon a highly improbable explanation of the data.

Originally Posted by Drm970
Since you assume a "spiritual body" you have nothing more than you think I do saying the bodies are different bodies doesn't help you any more than my saying they are the same body. But, in fact, I have something to put against it. That is, my interpretation 1 Cor. 15 offers me a lovely framework in which to interpret Paul's desire to be free from the body. Namely because the mortal body is a burden. But to be rid of the mortal body i.e. incorporeal, was thought to be nakedness. Nakedness, as we know, is not a good thing in the bible. So while it's not all that great to be naked, it's better than this mortal body. But Paul speaks of being clothed in a heavenly dwelling. As per my other response, the resurrection would be the resurrection of the planted body, raised as a, lets even use your word, spiritual body, but spiritual in the sense that it had been refined. Paul doesn't want to be naked(out of body incorporeal existence) but, since being out of the body is to be with the Lord, it's still better to be naked and with the Lord, than trapped in a dying body.

Originally Posted by Drm970
More accurately, rescued from mortality. Still, already addressed. Again it seems that your take on the passage is abductively weak.

Originally Posted by Drm970
I provided the argument in the other thread, my explanation of Paul's theology is a better explanation than yours. With an accurate account of resurrection theology, this passage fits in perfectly. You forget that you are open to the same criticism, as you believe he's saying he'll receive a spiritual body at resurrection. A bit counterproductive if he wants to be saved from "the body" isn't it? So he must be talking about a specific body. Here it comes, his mortal body! Beautiful how that works out, isn't it?