<![CDATA[Forums]]> http://rfforum.websitetoolbox.com 60 Thu, 17 May 2012 01:03:01 GMT <![CDATA[Riddle me this.]]> http://rfforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=5849268

Forum: Choose Your Own Topic ]]> http://rfforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=5849268 Wed, 16 May 2012 23:36:55 GMT <![CDATA[evil originating from God?]]> http://rfforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=5849206
somewhere. God. Didn't God indirectly create evil then?

Forum: Choose Your Own Topic ]]> http://rfforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=5849206 Wed, 16 May 2012 22:32:44 GMT <![CDATA[1. external restrictions cause the need for fine tuning 2. god finely-tuned the universe. 3. Therefore; god is bound by external restrictions.]]> http://rfforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=5849099

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPICs6YbFtA&feature=youtu.be

I think this argument is flawed for the following reasons.

1. It assumes that God had to work within certain restrictions.

2.The onus is on the presenter of this argument to demonstrate that God is not the author of these restrictions but is forced to work within them.

Your thoughts?

Forum: Teleological Argument ]]> http://rfforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=5849099 Wed, 16 May 2012 20:59:17 GMT <![CDATA[The angel who walked amongst us...]]> http://rfforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=5848830 Australia mourns. 'Angel of the Gap'
Don Ritchie, the man who talked 160
out of suicide

For nearly five decades he gazed out of his Sydney home overlooking the
Pacific Ocean, inspired by one of Australia's most picturesque views. But it
was not just a love for the sea that drew him to the dramatic panorama.

Don Ritchie's window-watching had a far greater purpose. Since l964 he has
saved at least 160 lives, though some say the true figure is much higher.
Mr Ritchie, who died this week at the age of 86, was known as the Angel of
the Gap, a title earned for persuading people not to throw themselves off the
notorious Australian suicide spot.

Like Beachy Head on the Sussex coast, the sheer cliffs at the mouth of Sydney
harbour have long acted as a magnet to those who have lost all hope.
But thanks to his calm voice and sympathetic manner, Mr Ritchie offered a
helping hand to the desperate by engaging them in conversation on the
cliff-top in their hour of need.

A modest man who did not court celebrity or praise, Mr Ritchie would spot
would-be suicides from his home and slowly walk across the road to them.
At the cliff-edge he would simply smile and ask them, "Can I help you in some
way?" More often than not the quiet approach worked, though on some
occasions he risked his own life by physically restraining the more determined
from making their final leap.

Afterwards he would invite them back to his home for a cup of tea and a chat
and occasionally they would return years later to thank him for saving their
life. One survivor gave him a painting of an angel with the rays of the sun and
the simple message: "An angel who walks amongst us."

"My ambition has always been to just get them away from the edge, to buy
them time, to give them the opportunity to reflect and give them the chance to
realise that things might look better the next morning," he once confided.

"You just can't sit there and watch them," he added. "You've got to try and save them."

Mr Ritchie's daughter, Sue, said her father enjoyed his ocean view, but was
equally determined to watch out for troubled souls. He once said an offer of
help "was all that was needed to turn people around and he would say not to
underestimate the power of a kind word and a smile," she told the Sydney
Morning Herald.

He was "a great mixture of strength and compassion... an everyday person who
did an extraordinary thing for many people that saved their lives, without any
want of recognition," she added.

Mr Ritchie was a seaman in the Royal Australian Navy during the Second
World War and witnessed the Japanese surrender in Tokyo Bay in l945. Back
in Sydney he worked in the insurance industry. He would later tell friends of
the people he had saved: "I was a salesman for most of my life and I sold them
life."

News source

Forum: Choose Your Own Topic ]]> http://rfforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=5848830 Wed, 16 May 2012 17:46:39 GMT <![CDATA[My Testimony (open for assessment)]]> http://rfforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=5847690
Note: I'm not saying my testimony is proof of God but if not God, what has happened? (You'll obviously need to keep reading)

I was once a former atheist and a vocal one at that. I hated Christians and everything about it, they were stupid, deluded, fairy believing 7 day creationist loonies. I didn't grow up in a Christian household, did not associate with anyone of any religion, spent my time playing sport, parties, drinking and women etc. I wasn't a bad person, well liked, had a good family life etc but the one problem I had was that I bi-polar disorder. I kept it pretty well hidden from everyone and put on a brave face. Like most bi-polar sufferers life was full of ups and downs and things were slowly fading and life to me was becoming pointless and worthless and suicidal thoughts were constantly running in my head. One morning I was at my worse and thats when I went to my parents in a ball of tears telling them the way I had been feeling. (At this stage I didn't know what Bi-Polar was). I went to the doctor and was diagnosed. I was 21 at the time but had these feelings since I was 13 so I'm thankful I made it that long. Anyway, the doc put me on meds and what I found was that it just put me in a daze somewhat but my highs and lows were still happening.

One night I remember things just being so bad that suicide might now be my best option and for whatever reason , even though I was atheist, took a stab in the dark at God as one last resort. And it was as simple as asking, God, if you are real, please take this away from me because I don't want this anymore. I say without a word of a lie something came over me like I had never felt before in my life. A presence of peace and love and forgiveness and like a weight of the world had been lifted off my shoulders and for the first time true happiness. I was an atheist when I asked God to reveal himself, I had no reason to ask for God except to use him as a last resort and I'm glad I did.

Where am I now? That happened 10 years ago, my Bi-Polar has not returned and I still have that true happiness. I'm married now 8 years from a lovely lady I met at Church and have abeautiful son who is 20 months old and have a successful career and I am where I am now because I asked a question. My parents could have been very close to having the memory of their son committing suicide 10 years ago, but now the celebrate their grandchild.

So that's the crux of the story so now I want to open it up for interpretation and discussion and some questions that maybe need answered. If God is not real, what has happened to me then?

I once had a medically diagnosed illness that does not exist anymore, have I moved on from one illness to another delusion?

What reason, given what has happened to me should I not believe in God?

How does a life crippling illness just dissapear?

What if what happened to me could help millions of Bi-Polar sufferers, would you appose it?

Those are some questions but am happy to hear your thoughts of what exactly has happened to me if God is not real, and I won't take offence I promise.

Cheers

Forum: Choose Your Own Topic ]]> http://rfforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=5847690 Tue, 15 May 2012 22:37:58 GMT <![CDATA[Why does atheism entail naturalism?]]> http://rfforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=5847572

Do you believe that atheism entails naturalism, if so, why?

Now, to make it clear why I do not believe that atheism entails naturalism, allow me to rephrase this a bit.

Atheism = God does not exist.

Naturalism = Supernatural does not exist.

Claim:

If atheism is true, then naturalism is true.

Expressed differently:

If naturalism is false, then atheism is false.

Substituting in the definitions:

If it is false that the supernatural does not exist, then it is false that God does not exist.

Simplifying:

If the supernatural exists, then God exists.
(Note that this is done via two double negations, not by simply inverting the truth values)


So, my issue is, why do we have any reason to believe the claim that if the supernatural exists, then God exists?  This seems to be the only reason to believe that atheism entails naturalism, and I see no reason to accept it as a premise.

Forum: Choose Your Own Topic ]]> http://rfforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=5847572 Tue, 15 May 2012 21:11:43 GMT <![CDATA[The case for atheism]]> http://rfforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=5847561
It's time to make a case for why atheism is the most reasonable position. I don't in general claim absolute certainty regarding the claims I accept.
I do have a standard of evidence that needs to be met before I accept the claim. Atheism has for me met that standard of evidence.
So here we go with the evidence:
1. We can objectively observe a natural world.
2. We have so far not been able to objectively confirm that there is anything supernatural
3. There are things we don't understand that some people explain with the existence of the supernatural.
4. There has been things in the past that we didn't understand that some people explained with the existence of the supernatural. We now know that that those things had a natural explanation.
5. Based on 1,2,3 and 4 there is reasonable to think that there are natural explanations to the things we don't understand.
6. Because it is reasonable to think that there are natural explanations to the things we don't understand atheism is a reasonable position to take.

So in order for atheism to be less reasonable than agnosticism we must be able to objectively observe the supernatural. In order for theism to be more reasonable than atheism and agnosticism we must be able to objectively observe a God. That is the burden of proof one must take in order to be able to convince me to shift my position.

Discuss!
/Ivaj

Forum: Choose Your Own Topic ]]> http://rfforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=5847561 Tue, 15 May 2012 20:58:36 GMT <![CDATA[Randomness and determinism]]> http://rfforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=5847110 Forum: Choose Your Own Topic ]]> http://rfforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=5847110 Tue, 15 May 2012 16:12:20 GMT <![CDATA[Community School's Policy E-9 'Anti-Bullying']]> http://rfforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=5847079 I would like to solicit some commentary from those Christian theists as to their thoughts on the following policy:

 


KEY MESSAGES



D.E.C. Anti-homophobia and
anti-heterosexism Policy




 


All students in School District 10 will be safe in our learning
environments.  The District
Education Council responded to students’ needs and desires to address
anti-homophobia as one more step in creating positive and inclusive learning
environments in our schools. 
School Positive Learning Environment Plans include anti-harassment
strategies and this policy will reinforce their efforts dealing specifically
with homophobia. 



 The need for anti-homophobia policy is clear as our students
continue to push school staffs to create learning environments that are safe,
affirming, and inclusive.  Students
desire to have safe learning environments void of harassment and discrimination
based on gender and sexual orientation. 



 Students, parents, educators, and school support staff worked
collaboratively to design this policy.



This D.E.C. Policy will provide the governance so that our
Superintendent will implement a plan involving each school community.  Students, staff, and parents will work
collaboratively to analyze their school environment, and identify and implement
initiatives that will move their school forward in being a more safe, affirming,
and inclusive environment. 




Our school district wants to ensure procedures and strategies to
address discrimination and support diversity.  We all want learning environments that
are safe, welcoming, inclusive, and affirming for everyone. 
Resource binders were created to provide staff with sample lessons and
other resources to reference, consider, and potentially use in their
classrooms.



 


 

POLICY
TYPE:  DISTRICT “END
RESULTS”


 


 

 


 


 

E-9                 
ANTI-HOMOPHOBIA AND ANTI-HETEROSEXISM


 


 


 


 


 

 


 


 

POLICY:


 


 

 


 


 

School
District 10 is an inclusive anti-homophobia and anti-heterosexism organization.


 


 

 


 


 

In
order that all members of the school community learn and work together in an
atmosphere of respect and safety, free from homophobia, transphobia, anti-gay
harassment and/or heterosexism, District 10 recognizes its obligation to adopt
appropriate administrative procedures and strategies, which shall ensure
respect for human rights, support diversity, address discrimination, and create
a learning environment that is safe, welcoming, inclusive and affirming for
individuals regardless of real or perceived sexual orientations and/or gender
identities.


 


 

 


 


 

District
10 recognizes that LGBTQ students, staff and same-gender-parented families have
the right to:


 


 

-         
self-identification
and freedom of expression;


 


 

-         
be
treated fairly, equitably and with dignity;


 


 

-         
inclusion,
representation and affirmation;


 


 

-         
freedom
from harassment, discrimination and violence; and,


 


 

-         
avenues
of recourse (without fear of reprisal) when they are victims of harassment,
discrimination or violence.


 


 

 


 


 

The superintendent or designate shall take
necessary and timely action in developing a district action plan, and ensure the
development of school-based action plans, that promote a consistent,
district-wide, systemic response to homophobia, through staff and professional
development which strives to identify and change educational practices,
policies, and procedures that perpetuate homophobia, transphobia and
heterosexism, as well as the homophobic attitudes and behaviours that underlie
and reinforce such policies and practices.


 


 

 


 


 

 


 


 

Procedure


 


 

 


 


 

1.   
All
employees of School District 10:


 


 

-         
have
a responsibility to eliminate homophobia and heterosexism in the working and
learning environment; 


 


 

-         
shall
address assumptions that being a sexual minority or gender variant individual
is unnatural, and reinforce that everyone in the school environment deserves to
be respected; and,


 


 

 


 


 

E-9                 
ANTI-HOMOPHOBIA AND ANTI-HETEROSEXISM


 


 

 


 


 

-         
shall
confront the stereotypes and misinformation behind insults and abuse by
challenging staff, students, and parents who behave in a prejudicial manner
towards LGBTQ individuals.


 


 

 


 


 

2.   
District
10 shall:


 


 

-         
provide
and promote opportunities for employees to increase their awareness of the
scope and impact of the discrimination of LGBTQ
individuals;


 


 

-         
provide
and promote opportunities for employees to increase their knowledge and skills
in promoting respect for human rights, supporting diversity and addressing
homophobia and heterosexism in our schools;


 


 

-         
work
to increase parental awareness of the needs of LGBTQ staff, students, and their
family members;


 


 

-         
aid
school-based administrators and guidance counsellors by providing the necessary
support and/or education to ensure that individuals who behave in a prejudicial
manner towards LGBTQ individuals receive age-appropriate education-based
interventions by peaceful and positive role models;


 


 

-         
develop
an action plan leading to the implementation of this policy and create a list
of concrete actions needed to improve the school environment for LGBTQ staff,
students, and their families; and,


 


 

-         
subsequently
require all principals to facilitate the development of a school-based action
plan that aligns with that of District 10. 


 


 

 


 


 

3.   
School-based
administrators (principal or designate) shall:


 


 

-         
create
an inclusive and welcoming environment for sexual minority youth, parents and
staff; 


 


 

-         
create
an action plan to implement this policy;


 


 

-         
ensure
that the District 10 Anti-Homophobia and Anti-Heterosexism Policy is
effectively shared with all students, parents and staff;


 


 

-         
include
the District 10 Anti-Homophobia and Anti-Heterosexism Policy statement (as well
as a link to the full document) in the preface of their school agenda and in
their school-based Positive Learning & Working Environment Plan
(P.L.E.P.);


 


 

-         
support
the formation of a school-based Gay-Straight Alliance (G.S.A.) when interest is
expressed by a student or staff member; and,


 


 

-         
aid
all staff by providing the necessary support and/or education to ensure that
individuals who behave in a prejudicial manner towards LGBTQ individuals
receive age-appropriate education-based interventions.


 


 

 


 


 

 


 


 

MONITORING:


 


 

 


 


 

Method: 
Look For Document


 


 

Frequency:  Annually
in July


 


 

 POLICY E-9


 


 

 


 


 

APPENDIX I –
DEFINITIONS


 


 

 


 


 

 


 


 

ALLY: A person, regardless of his or
her sexual orientation, who supports the human, civil, and sexual rights of
sexual minorities.


 


 

 


 


 

BISEXUAL: An
individual who is physically, romantically and emotionally attracted to both
males and females.


 


 

 


 


 

GAY: A person who is physically,
romantically and emotionally attracted to someone of the same sex. 
The word gay can refer to both males and females, but is commonly used to
identify males only.


 


 

 


 


 

GENDER IDENTITY: An individual’s
sense of being male or female, which may or may not be the same as one’s
biological sex.


 


 

 


 


 

GENDER VARIANT: A term to refer to
individuals whose expressions of gender do not conform to the stereotypical
gender norms of masculinity and femininity.


 


 

 


 


 

HETEROSEXISM: The assumption that
everyone is heterosexual, and/or the belief that sexual minorities are
abnormal.  Heterosexism is a
barrier to inclusion and prevents the affirmation of LGBTQ
individuals.


 


 

 


 


 

HETEROSEXUAL: A person who is
physically, romantically and emotionally attracted to someone of the opposite
sex.


 


 

 


 


 

HOMOPHOBIA: The
fear, and/or hatred, and/or repulsion of homosexuality in oneself or in others,
often exhibited by self-hatred, prejudice discrimination, bullying or acts of
violence.


 


 

 


 


 

INCLUSION: (Inclusive
Education):  “...defined broadly,
supports the equality mandates of the Charter of Rights and New
Brunswick’s human rights code” (McKay Report).


 


 

 


 


 

“Inclusive education is about educating all students in a way that
allows them to reach their full potential as valuable human beings while
contributing to and enhancing their communities. It includes but is not just
about students with disabilities, but rather all students— boys, girls,
Aboriginals, Francophones, Anglophones, new Canadians, high achievers, the
disenfranchised, students with mental or physical limits, religious or cultural
groups, people of differing sexual orientation and those considered at
risk.”


 


 

 


 


 

“Inclusive schools are safer schools. Students are made to feel as
though they belong rather than feeling alienated. Inclusion is the best
antidote to violence in schools.”


 


 

 


 


 

“Inclusive education is the model that best achieves the goals of
equality for all, as articulated in the Charter of Rights, the human rights
code and international commitments” (Inclusion! What is Inclusion Anyway? Questions and
Answers About the MacKay Report on Inclusion).


 


 

 


 


 

INTERNALIZED HOMOPHOBIA: A diminished
sense of personal self-worth or esteem felt by an individual as a result of the
experienced or presumed homophobia of others.


 


 

 


 


 

LESBIAN: A female who is physically,
romantically and emotionally attracted to someone of the same
sex.


 


 

 


 


 

LGBTQ: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual,
Transgender/Two-Spirited, Questioning/Queer.


 


 

 


 


 

SEXUAL
MINORITY: Persons expressing some same-sex
sexual orientation; sexual attractions to same-sex individuals; histories of
sexual activity with someone of the same sex; identification as lesbian, gay,
bisexual (Harvard Injury Control Research Center).


 


 

 


 


 

SEXUAL ORIENTATION: The
emotional/romantic and physical attraction felt by an individual towards members
of the same sex, the other sex or either sex.


 


 

 


 


 

TRANSGENDER: A person whose gender
identity, outward appearance, expression and/or anatomy does not fit into
stereotypical expectations of male or female. Some describe it as being born
into the wrong body.


 


 

 


 


 

TRANSPHOBIA: The
fear and/or hatred, and/or repulsion of transgender individuals and is exhibited
by prejudice, discrimination, intimidation, or acts of
violence.


 


 

 


 


 

TRANSSEXUAL: A person who experiences
intense personal and emotional discomfort with their assigned birth gender.


 


 

 


 


 

Two-Spirited: a term referring to
gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender individuals by those who follow
traditional Aboriginal teachings.


 


 

 


 


 

TWO-SPIRIT: Some Aboriginal people
identify themselves as two-spirit rather than as bisexual, gay, lesbian or
transgender.  Historically, in
many Aboriginal cultures, two-spirit persons were respected leaders and medicine
people. Before colonization, two-spirit persons were often accorded special
status based upon their unique abilities to understand both male and female
perspectives.

 

Forum: Choose Your Own Topic ]]> http://rfforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=5847079 Tue, 15 May 2012 15:52:39 GMT <![CDATA[Concerns about satanic symbolism in common things]]> http://rfforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=5846693
Personally I've been studying the various ones who claim to be Christian for obvious reasons.

 I was led there after studying the book of Revelations which was something I kept putting off and putting off just due to all the work and the various views on virtually everything in that book.

So far I've got a good basic education on the various views on revelation along with the various conspiracy theories regarding the Illuminati, freemasonry, luciferianism and nwo that have more or less to the end times prophecies in Revelation.

Ok that said I was going to focus your attention to the freemasonry and luciferian (satanism) part of this. And it's also one of the things that is starting to really bother me.

To give you something to jog your memory on what I'm getting ready to mention, remember back in the 1980s with the controversy regarding the cooperate logo of the Proctor and Gamble cooperation?

Where the logo had something to do with the moon and was linked to satan worship?

Well my study of all the illuminati, freemasonry and so on reminded me of that but on a much more greater level. You see from what I learned there are apparently hidden satanic meanings to almost everything.

For instance not just the old P&G logo but nearly every single company logo in existence!

Not only that but nearly every natural phenomenon like the sun, planets, clouds, lightning just to name a few.

All the various colors we see, any design or shape of anything we see on all the various things in our house, in fact even our house itself especially if there are any squares, circles or triangles about the interior or exterior all have satanic meanings.

And what really makes me nervous is many Christians who study this say we need to get rid of anything that even half way resembles anything luciferian, masonic or satanic. The obvious problem I see with this is, by the time we get done, we won't be left with anything!

Which makes me ask even more pressing theological questions. For instance (and pay very close attention to these questions I'm asking) since God originally created everything like the colors shapes and everything that goes into anything natural and anything man made He should own the copyrights to it, after all He designed and created it.

Now if satan were to come in and claim something God originally created (let's say for an example the rainbow) for his cause and for his glory does God have to get rid of the rainbow?

Does God now have to relinquish His copyrights to something He originally created (the rainbow) over to satan just because might so happen to fancy rainbows and inspire his followers to use it for instance as a sign of worship to him?

And if that's the case does God expect us to live happy lives without all the various things that God originally created that are now somehow in possession of satan and satanism?

And since nearly everything has some kind of evil crazy meaning in satanism does God then expect us to live in white rooms with white curtains sitting in white chairs in white shirts and pants staring blankly into space because nearly everything we can say, do, think has some kind of evil twisted meaning to satan?

And also if this carries on into the afterlife, does that mean heaven will be a place of blank dull nonexistence?

 Could this all really mean that there is nothing after this life and thus the Christian message is all about trying to always take the hard, boring, sorrowful way out because in the end we will be free from all satanic oppression (ie everything all people on earth see, do and sense) in a "blissful" state of nonexistence?

I hope to God that is the furthest from the truth!

That's what I have fear about, that's what the negative side of me wants to think about all this. But the positive side of me thinks that just like how God forgives and cleanses us from sin and declares us innocent in His sight He may do that to the rest of creation as well.

 Take the rainbow again for instance. Now I'm not saying that God will have to pardon or forgive the rainbow because a rainbow in and of itself does not have conscience it in itself doesn't know right from wrong.

But just like how everything must be clean and purified before it enters God's presence just like in early Jewish temple practice in the OT God may have all the various things that satan once used to glorify him to be purified in the end after the final judgement so that they can exist in God's kingdom for eternity.

In a way it does make sense because if you view the Bible passages about heaven in a more literal sense it talks about in heaven there will even be snakes or vipers there, because it says that a small child will play near the vipers nest.

And any biblicaly illiterate and satanic symbol illiterate person will almost always tell you that if he or she could think of any symbol, living or nonliving thing to describe satan it will almost be the snake.

So if indeed heaven is to be a real place and nothing overly figurative like what many extreme liberal scholars say it will be I assume that God will purify everything more or less out of the things He originally created and not simply discard and get rid of them.

But again I could be wrong, that's why I started this topic and why I"m asking you all for your take on the subject.

I certainly hope that God doesn't want us to discard everything that satanists give evil meaning to since if that is the case I or anyone else who considers themselves a follower of Christ could even function
.
I mean for instance since the sun and the moon are considered to be something important under satanism does God not want us to ever go outside?

But anyway, I look forward to seeing what all the Christians here think. Thanks guys.

 

Forum: Choose Your Own Topic ]]> http://rfforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=5846693 Tue, 15 May 2012 10:33:02 GMT <![CDATA[The KCA challenge]]> http://rfforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=5846042

Now, I'm going to present what I consider the most defensible definitions that can be fitted into the KCA.  I do not believe this to be what Craig intends by the words, and am not trying to.  If a supporter of the argument wants to substitute their own definition in, then they must defend why that word is better, and how the premise is defended using that definition.  So, here I go:

1) Everything that begins (comes into existence from the rearrangement of preexisting matter) to exist has a cause (temporally preceding event which was sufficient for its existence)

2) The universe began (had a finite temporal boundary in the past) to exist.

Therefore:  ???????


Support:

1) The support for this premise is empirical.  Every time we have seen something come into existence, it has been the result of pre-existing matter rearranging in some way.  Although I reject the existence of things such as thoughts etc. this is also true for them, as they are always accompanied by the rearrangement of physical matter.  Every time this has happened, there has also been a preceding event which we believe to be sufficient for the existence of the caused thing.

2) The support for this is similar to Craig's.  An actually infinite past seems untenable.

Conclusion) Nothing can be validly inferred from this argument other than a conjunction of the premises, or a couple of negations.


Okay, so there's my formulation, with as much logical or empirical support as I think can be given for any interpretation of the words.

Forum: Choose Your Own Topic ]]> http://rfforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=5846042 Mon, 14 May 2012 22:03:06 GMT <![CDATA[What is the best book on defending the Bible in regards to slavery?]]> http://rfforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=5845630 I know the arguments but it would do me good to have some literature availabel to refer people to. Thanks.

Forum: On Guard ]]> http://rfforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=5845630 Mon, 14 May 2012 17:48:11 GMT <![CDATA[Same-sex marriage and the Bible]]> http://rfforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=5845563 multiple women? Here are some examples:

1) And Lamech took unto him two wives.Genesis 4:19.

2)  Elkanah ... had two wives; the name of the one was Hannah, and the name of the other Peninnah. 1 Samuel 1:1-2

3)  Solomon ... had seven hundred wives ... and three hundred concubines. 1 Kings 11:2-3

4) But Abijah waxed mighty, and married fourteen wives. 2 Chronicles 13:21

5) Jehoiada took for him two wives. 2 Chronicles 24: 3


If marriage has *always* been defined as a union between one man and one woman, then how should I understand these passages? Should I believe that the Bible is wrong in implying that marriage has *sometimes* been a union between one man and multiple women? Or should I believe that the historical claim advanced by SSM opponents is simply false? Which is it?

Forum: Choose Your Own Topic ]]> http://rfforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=5845563 Mon, 14 May 2012 17:11:14 GMT <![CDATA[The problem with nothing]]> http://rfforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=5845455

I was just reading yet another thread on Krauss and his use of nothing, and I just wanted to point something out and see what others thought of this (or if they had even realized it themselves).

Nothing is an incoherent concept if used in the philosophical sense.  By that I mean the literal absence of anything.  There is no possible world or possible state within this universe that could contain nothing since nothing is not actually a thing that a universe could contain.  The very fact that there is a universe, means that there is a something (ie. the universe). 

Even when Christians say that the universe was created ex nihlo, they do not mean it was literally nothing, since God clearly exists, since Christians believe that God always has existed, and always will exist, nothing is an impossible state under a Christian world view, since nothing would entail the non-existence of God as well.

Having said that, can we please get away from the quibbling about the philosophical use of the word nothing and simply stick to the colloquial use (ie, there is nothing in the empty box, or there is nothing in my hand) ?

Forum: Choose Your Own Topic ]]> http://rfforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=5845455 Mon, 14 May 2012 16:16:34 GMT <![CDATA[Non-belief: the peace that passeth all understanding ...]]> http://rfforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=5844999

I had no peace.

Thankfully, I grew up and came to understand that Santa Clause is not real; the Easter Bunny is not real; the Boogey Man is not real; heaven is not real; hell is not real; God is not real.  No more sleepless nights worrying about Johnny; praying for Johnny; "Oh God!  Please help Johnny to see the error of his ways!  Please save Johnny before it is too late!"

Ah, peace at last!  Atheism offers a peace that theism never can.  No more struggling with having to "prove" my position.  No more throwing away money to a charlatan who claims to have all the answers.  No more of this, this silly "apologetics!"

Ah, the peace and serenity of unbelief!

Forum: Choose Your Own Topic ]]> http://rfforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=5844999 Mon, 14 May 2012 11:40:30 GMT